How do you find meaning through music?

Obviously, our pursuit of meaning through music is based on our desires, but even desires take time to cultivate.  Some desires, we may decide in hindsight, were adolescent and immature while others developed us.

For me desires started with listening to music and finding things I liked.  That didn't always lead me "on the right path" so to speak.  I think I've definitely cultivated an aversion to numbering my compositions (Sonata No.1, Symphony No. that, Prelude No.3 ... seems so dull).  I also seem to have an aversion (or maybe inability) to write movements that belong together although I hope that in the future that might change.  Or even just writing a set of pieces in different keys for a single instrument (like Chopins Nocturnes etc.) is difficult for me.  I am at the moment in the midst of abandoning just such a project that I couldn't manage to keep alive because it just seems so totally dull and boring to me that I can't keep interested enough to continue it.  I guess I could say that in order to keep my own interest in music I must always be seeking novelty of some kind.

How do you find meaning through music composition?

Yo Peter,

On 1/4/2024 at 1:01 PM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I think I've definitely cultivated an aversion to numbering my compositions (Sonata No.1, Symphony No. that, Prelude No.3 ... seems so dull).

I am the complete opposite of you! I prefer having the title of my compositions just numberings, since by this the meaning of the piece won't be limited by the title but instead can be more freely interpreted by listeners! For me naming it in a programmatic way means limiting its potential.

On 1/4/2024 at 1:01 PM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I also seem to have an aversion (or maybe inability) to write movements that belong together although I hope that in the future that might change.

I am the complete opposite of you for this as well! I have way too much to talk and I need multi-movements to speak out my mind. Each movements have their own unique thing to express, but I believe 1+1>2 and when the movements are carefully arranged, cohered and echoed I am sure the meaning will be much greater than just one single movement of work.

On 1/4/2024 at 1:01 PM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Or even just writing a set of pieces in different keys for a single instrument (like Chopins Nocturnes etc.) is difficult for me.

I agree with you on this, since I think it meaningless to write pieces just for fulfilling keys (not blaming you my bro @Thatguy v2.0 LoL!) Also I have key that I don't love so I won't write pieces on that key!

For me I always use motives for expressing my meanings. Just like my Clarinet Quintet the motives are everywhere, and through transformation of the motives and different combinations of themes create different meaning (at least for me). Sometimes the "meaning" is just emotional expression, like the first movement of my Third Piano Sonata. Or more philosphical like my String Sextet, where I express my meaning through themes and sometimes promoting a more unique soundscape to let you feel what I feel when I was thinking those subjects or inside those thoughts.

On 1/4/2024 at 1:01 PM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I guess I could say that in order to keep my own interest in music I must always be seeking novelty of some kind.

I am the complete opposite of you for the third time! I never really seek novelty of some kind, but the inspiration pushes to write their own music and I am just the interim communicator between the ideas and the music, like a mother between the heaven and the offspring. Your work will indeed carry some of your own genes, but I don't think you can determine them at all! And I think my style is more conservative than you!

Thx for your question and sharing Peter!

Henry

Hello
For me, there has been a long process in which everything was a rush to finish the compositions until now, when I think about it much more.
Part of the "problem" is that during all this time I have been interested and learning many systems and languages, including contemporary ones.
Right now what matters to me is trying to introduce some personal emotions into the music. Which doesn't mean that they are identically understandable by the listener.
Sometimes a title leads me to the composition, sometimes I don't care, or I prefer, as @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said, to leave it open.
I don't like (composing) pieces of several movements, I always think that one has nothing to do with the other.

Interesting. I have mixed thoughts about this.

Music is rammed down my/our throat(s) so often that it’s become an annoyance in supermarkets; TV ads and documentaries, lifts, presumably to “enhance our experience” of what’s behind it. Film music annoys me. Worse, being in a telephone queue. I’m sure this so-called music is designed to aggravate people in the hope they’ll hang up.

But in music designed to be listened to I find meaning in its sensuality rather than emotion (although a good ‘major key’ build up and climax can be exhilarating). I have to close my eyes and be drawn in to the mood. I want imagery, however surreal – anything from the abstract to the quasi-realistic; subtle sensations that span out as imagery of a kind. Hence my faves include the likes of early Sculthorpe, Delius, Debussy, Lutyens, Villa-Lobos et sim. 

I suppose it doesn’t help suffering synaesthesia which is a cross-modal neural problem. I don’t know if I had it naturally or through neural plasticity from ‘ingesting’ certain substances when a little younger. As I understand it now, synaesthesia is something that can be cultivated if one wants it.

I rarely find emotional meaning in music which through European cultural tradition usually implies ‘key’ and the means to exploit concordant harmony. The semiotics are well established. I listen to music in keys, sure, but for me there’s no need to add to it as a composer. It’s more about being a filter to atmosphere, to impression (in which moments of tonal centre can happen but the evanescence, the flow seem more dominant in the necessarily loose structure. Yes, music can evoke emotion but I can’t easily equate that with meaning.  

Once more the forum has provoked me to think about this because I’m never sure why I compose. It can be exciting...it can be frustrating!

I am a programatic composer: I always have a story to tell.  I hardly ever write absolute pieces.  So for me, I love hearing other people tell a story.

On 1/4/2024 at 1:01 PM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

How do you find meaning through music composition

Its a personal thing . It also is kinda like the egg vs chicken argument - but even that analogy is limited. Even for me, I have not figured out which exactly - is the meaning that births the music or the music that births the meaning - because I kinda feel like its both at the same time. I get the feel, the vibes, the inspiration and the music and meanings just come. In my experience, the first sparks, or the core ( or prob first theme ), and the core meanings, are there as the foundational spirit of the piece; In the process of composing, anything else - music or meaning- can be changed or added on but this core still stays. We can add or discover new meaning after the compositions, after rounds of listening, and after showing it to others and later responding and agreeing with, or reacting against, their responses. There are some inherent meaning we ascribe to certain things and there are those which we add as we know more about others and music in general ( say a certain key or tempo marking ). So it's like I personally " find " meaning in my music through the whole ( never-ending ) process of the composing and sharing that piece - with many changeable meanings, but more or less with core meanings.

As for these " meanings " there are conceptual ones, but anything conceptual for me arises in emotionality, so its all about the emotions, everything else are just the means ( music theories, traditions, forms, other opinions etc... ). There isn't really a " conservative vs innovative priority " inner argument for me - its all just an alignment of emotions to what is more " suited "; there is not form for forms sake or novelty or novelty's sake - it's ultimately still the emotions.

For quite a number of my pieces, I can very much can relate to 

On 1/5/2024 at 6:23 PM, Luis Hernández said:

introduce some personal emotions into the music. Which doesn't mean that they are identically understandable by the listener.

Thing is, it can feel isolating, but hey, those are real emotions to be at least self-validated.

On 1/4/2024 at 1:01 PM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

numbering my compositions (Sonata No.1, Symphony No. that, Prelude No.3 ... seems so dull)

On 1/5/2024 at 4:41 PM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I prefer having the title of my compositions just numberings, since by this the meaning of the piece won't be limited by the title but instead can be more freely interpreted by listeners! For me naming it in a programmatic way means limiting its potential

I'm like a mix. I lean slightly more to naming pieces in a very technical manner. Titling pieces has been an issues for me. For me, only when a stand-alone piece has a really distinct characteristic for me ( and hopefully others ) would I give it a specific name, a descriptor or noun. If not, I would prefer naming it quite technically ( though boringly ) so as to not limit their meanings. Another situation where I give more characteristic names are when the pieces are part of a collection which has a characteristic name ( I have not posted those pieces here ) . So, as with @PeterthePapercomPoser, I also feel that such titles are really dull, as on their own they have no character beyond those numbers and forms, so I try to give specific names wherever possible, but also only when hugely justified. However, I also feel this dullness can sometimes a necessary and worthwhile sacrifice as I share the sentiment with @Henry Ng Tsz Kiu that specific titles can limit potential meanings of the piece and thus, leaving an uncharacteristic title can leave the piece more open to more varieties of interpretations.

Tbh, this discussion made me think about the naming of Chopin's Etudes : ) Anyways, Thanks for the discussion!