Key Characteristics

I know we've had this discussion before, but I came across this site today and I thought it wouldn't hurt to get a fresh discussion going on everyone's opinions.

I don't agree with all of the ideas on this site, but I'm curious to see if you guys so, or if you even believe in that certain keys have certain characteristics (I don't).

AFFECTIVE KEY CHARACTERISTICS

Discuss.

How strange.

I have always thought of some keys as having special charicteristics.

I thought Eb Major was triumph, and why is Db major so bad?

C# minor is my favourite key, I think it somehow sounds more profecional and nice than others.

I don't really agree with any on the site. The one on Cmajor is true :thumbsup:

Fminor, longing for the grave seems vaguely right, it is a sad key for some reason.

That's all I can think of for now, anyone else?

Mine are usually different from others.

I think the explanation for it lies in the fact that, take for instance my piano, the strings detune in a certain way. I don't tune it incredibly often, so for a large portion of the year it will be very slightly out of tune (the upper notes moreso than the lower)

I think the way in which it is out of tune, combined with the fact that each key has it's scale degrees at a different place than others (therefore each key could be said to have a slightly different timbre) means that you do in fact get a sense for keys. Which is probably somewhat unique.

Marius, you play on a keyboard most of the time, yea? That could explain why you don't.

Or maybe some people just don't have a feel for key characteristics.

Edit: plus people with perfect pitch may also have this to a far greater degree.

lol. Theres no difference between keys. Its all in your head and hands. Obviously there is a mechanical reason why keys "sound" different and thats because they are mechanically different. The key that I find easiest to play in is C#maj/A#min. I can't stand Cmaj. So when it comes to note choices and even modulations and such I would do stuff I differently in C#maj than Cmaj. I.e. the music reflects the mechanical differences in keys.

But there is no physical difference between keys in equal temperament. Thats the whole point of equal temperament. (and even if it wasn't it wouldn't matter because key is a set of pitches of certain frequences any other key is just a shift of spectrum).

I suppose though that because some keys are higher in pitches than others there could be some type of psychological difference. An example might be something where, say, your father tended to speak in a certain range that worked well with a certain key and so when you here that key it subconciously reminds you of your father. (I'm just trying to explain it in some possible way, I'm sure there are many ways).

There is no physical difference between keys and hence it must be all in the interpretation.

So our interpretation makes them different. Capische? General human interpretation. Many times in History there were reasons why certain keys were chosen.

Well, actually, techincally all the keys are completely different. The actual frequency of the notes is different, so therefore, the sound is different in each key. The relationship between the notes is the same, though, so it's hard to tell the difference for many people.

Now, with that evidence all that I can say is that perhaps some frequencies sound better to one's ear than others, or at least they sound different. I mean, why is it that minor scales sound "sad" and major scales sound "happy" (to put it in very simple terms :P)? I know that's simply a matter of relationship between the notes, but the principle is essentially the same. Some assortment of sounds make us feel one way, while a different assortment makes us feel different (for those who can tell the difference, at least...or think they can :P).

Well, actually, techincally all the keys are completely different. The actual frequency of the notes is different, so therefore, the sound is different in each key. The relationship between the notes is the same, though, so it's hard to tell the difference for many people.

Now, with that evidence all that I can say is that perhaps some frequencies sound better to one's ear than others, or at least they sound different.

Makes a lot of sense that.

I mean, why is it that minor scales sound "sad" and major scales sound "happy" (to put it in very simple terms :P)? I know that's simply a matter of relationship between the notes, but the principle is essentially the same.

Like when you play just a C you get harmonics of:

C........C....G....C....E....G....Bb(approx)...C etc

Where a chord in C minor goes (for example, like the opening chord of Chopin's Prelude #20 ):

C........C.....G....C....Eb...G

so though you hear the E-natural only quietly (depending on the instrument)

it clashes with the Eflat. Hence the weird sound of minors.

Interesting subject, psychoacoustics.

Yeah, basically it depends on one's brain's interpretation of the sound...which leads me to my next question:

Does anyone know of actual scientific studies on key characteristics? I haven't found any, but I'm not too surprised; there would be a lot of variables involved if one did try to test key characteristics :|...

not like I'm an expert on that but logically it seems that way.

Having experimented quite a bit with different temperaments on the harpsichord, I'm certain that the effect of temperaments on different key qualities is explanation enough for key symbolism. I explained this in further detail, I believe, in the previous thread on this topic. Both in this thread and the previous I've seen lots of creative explanations, but none of them explain, for instance, why the old writings about what key implies what affect are a) so very detailed, and b) coincide with the effect temperaments give: case in point, C major; "Completely Pure. Its character is: innocence, simplicity, na

Most of you guys are kidding yourselves.

On today's piano there is no difference between key signatures other than that determined by the change in register for every interval (for instance, a melody staring on middle C will sound lower than a melody starting on a G above - well duh!)

Before equal-temprement came into the system, it was a different story, and of course keys had different acoustic properties... but not anymore, whether its physical or just inside someones head

period.

Most of you guys are kidding yourselves.

On today's piano there is no difference between key signatures other than that determined by the change in register for every interval (for instance, a melody staring on middle C will sound lower than a melody starting on a G above - well duh!)

Before equal-temprement came into the system, it was a different story, and of course keys had different acoustic properties... but not anymore, whether its physical or just inside someones head

period.

Let's not get too piano-centric. Other instruments aren't equal-tempered. Brass instruments in particular are restricted by the lengths of tubing available, so sound different in different keys. Meanwhile, different notes set up different sympathetic vibrations in string instruments.

keys are different. Period.

C maj is not the same than F maj.... keys have inner colours... the register is different, the brightness is different...

in jazz, C add 6 is not the same as C 13.... why is that? they are both an A natural, but, since the 13 means to play a 6th (A in this case) up an octave, then it gives a different colour, is bright.... if you play a bass note © it sounds creepy or tough, give a Cello or a CB an A minor passage... it would sound scary... now give the same passage to a flute section... it could sound SAD but not scary.... if you want an upper register to sound scary then you need to use dissonant melodies instead...

keys are not the same... registers are not the same... notes are not the same.

keys are different. Period.

C maj is not the same than F maj.... keys have inner colours... the register is different, the brightness is different...

in jazz, C add 6 is not the same as C 13.... why is that? they are both an A natural, but, since the 13 means to play a 6th (A in this case) up an octave, then it gives a different colour, is bright.... if you play a bass note © it sounds creepy or tough, give a Cello or a CB an A minor passage... it would sound scary... now give the same passage to a flute section... it could sound SAD but not scary.... if you want an upper register to sound scary then you need to use dissonant melodies instead...

keys are not the same... registers are not the same... notes are not the same.

For the 99.9999999% (and I am rounding down) of the population who DON'T have perfect pitch... keys are not different...

Of course, different instruments work better on different keys, of course - that is part of their physical construction.. But this does not work for the piano.

Your example is worthless. Yes, a C 6 chord is different to a C 13 chord - and yes of course registers are different (please see my first post).. but if you can explain to me the differences between a C6 chord and a D6 chord as played on the piano...

Brass instruments in particular are restricted by the lengths of tubing available, so sound different in different keys.

This goes nowhere to explain why key symbolism existed--and was, if anything, more prominent--before the 19th century, where you'd actually use a completely different trumpet in a different key. Of course, they'd all have different timbres, but there was no difference in intonation between keys. The C-E third on a C trumpet was the same just third as the D-F# third on a D trumpet.

Meanwhile, different notes set up different sympathetic vibrations in string instruments.

This also doesn't explain why key symbolism is prominent in music that does not include strings, or indeed why descriptions of key symbolism (like the link in the beginning of this thread) are so very detailed (and conspicuously alike among musicians who can't have talked about it among eachother; did they all happen to imagine the same things?).

Let's not get too piano-centric.

Keyboard instruments were involved in most music until the second half of the 18th century, when the concept of thoroughbass was abandoned. There's good reason to be keyboard-centric when discussing the origin of key symbolism. And I've already explained my thought about this origin enough.

but if you can explain to me the differences between a C6 chord and a D6 chord as played on the piano...

C6 = C, E, G, A

D6 = D, F#, A, B

1- if you spell the notes they are not the same (:P )

2- Using C as a starting point... then D6 is a major 2nd above

Come on dude"!.... they are not the same.. they don

C6 = C, E, G, A

D6 = D, F#, A, B

1- if you spell the notes they are not the same (:D )

2- Using C as a starting point... then D6 is a major 2nd above

Come on dude"!.... they are not the same.. they don

The use of key signatures is adept to the piece, and so, different feelings can be transmitted by the use of the right key.

E.g.: I can play "The Entertainer" (C major) on my piano. If I transpose from C to E flat, it'll sound very childish. In fact, any of my pieces can be transported to +3 semitones (C to Eb, D to F) and they sound childish.

So, when I play "The Entertainer for kids, I always transpose it to Eb.

Keys have colors, feelings, acording to the composer's hearing. The composer chooses how to develop the theme, but before, he/she needs to choose a key to transmit the feeling.

The use of key signatures is adept to the piece, and so, different feelings can be transmitted by the use of the right key.

E.g.: I can play "The Entertainer" (C major) on my piano. If I transpose from C to E flat, it'll sound very childish. In fact, any of my pieces can be transported to +3 semitones (C to Eb, D to F) and they sound childish.

So, when I play "The Entertainer for kids, I always transpose it to Eb.

Keys have colors, feelings, acording to the composer's hearing. The composer chooses how to develop the theme, but before, he/she needs to choose a key to transmit the feeling.

That is rubbish... it is possible that if you started playing in C, moving it up a minor 3rd would give it a quality.. but starting it in Eb or E of F or any other key does nothing

Well....I don't think you can dismiss it quite as rubbish. At best (and at worst) it's perception so it'll affect everyone differently.

I find that different keys in the same mode have different effects, possibly because the absolute frequencies of their fundamentals act on me in a particular way, just as colour-bias in the visual is noticeable to me. Other people are are not affected though I'll bet that resonance issues come into it with large deviations, like, say, transposing a piece or down up a fifth.

C6 = C, E, G, A

D6 = D, F#, A, B

No! No! No! No! Nooooooo!

C,E,G,A = Am7 chord in first inversion.

D,F#,A,B = Bm7 chord in first inversion.

Jazz chord abbreviations corrupt. Don't pay attention to them. :P

Have to agree on C# minor being the best key.

This is interesting. I've never thought of different keys having different characteristics. I havn't noticed any of them before, I'll try it out.

This goes nowhere to explain why key symbolism existed--and was, if anything, more prominent--before the 19th century, where you'd actually use a completely different trumpet in a different key. Of course, they'd all have different timbres, but there was no difference in intonation between keys. The C-E third on a C trumpet was the same just third as the D-F# third on a D trumpet.

This also doesn't explain why key symbolism is prominent in music that does not include strings, or indeed why descriptions of key symbolism (like the link in the beginning of this thread) are so very detailed (and conspicuously alike among musicians who can't have talked about it among eachother; did they all happen to imagine the same things?).

Keyboard instruments were involved in most music until the second half of the 18th century, when the concept of thoroughbass was abandoned. There's good reason to be keyboard-centric when discussing the origin of key symbolism. And I've already explained my thought about this origin enough.

Here's one more try at it - an important biological fact that I forgot about (strangely enough, having done research in auditory perception myself). The human ear is not equally sensitive to all pitches. It's well known that the region of highest sensitivity is in the 2 1/2 octaves or so above middle C - but more importantly, the sensitivity curve affects how we perceive the overtones of any note. The absolute pitch of a note does matter, and it matters a whole lot more than most musicians think. It can even affect the direction we think a sound is coming from...

Here's one more try at it - an important biological fact that I forgot about (strangely enough, having done research in auditory perception myself). The human ear is not equally sensitive to all pitches. It's well known that the region of highest sensitivity is in the 2 1/2 octaves or so above middle C - but more importantly, the sensitivity curve affects how we perceive the overtones of any note. The absolute pitch of a note does matter, and it matters a whole lot more than most musicians think. It can even affect the direction we think a sound is coming from...

That sounds very interesting... any references???:D :P