Symphony no. 4 Almost Done!

I'm almost done with this piece, I just want to see all you nice people's thoughts before I call it complete.

The program is in the last post I made about it:

Thanks in advance for any helpful criticisms or advice 😄

I like the 3rd movement, would like to hear a it with better production.

7 minutes ago, MantisToboggan said:

I like the 3rd movement, would like to hear a it with better production.

 

Once I'm officially done with the piece, I'm going to put it in musescore 4 with the fancy musesounds. I just don't like composing in that newer program

Hey @ComposaBoi!

I'm glad you divided your movements into separate files as it facilitates my attempt to review such a gargantuan work.  I'll start with movement 2 as it seems to be the most jaunty and scherzo-like.  I do have to say that I feel like the orchestration is really missing a piccolo in my opinion.  There were some spots where the statements of the theme could have been expanded to a higher range with the inclusion of piccolo instead of just alternating between strings and the winds you already have.  I think measures 58 - 61 really could have benefited from the inclusion of piccolo.

I think some of the chromatic passages like at 54 - 55 give that particular part of the movement the character of a circus march.  Chromaticism like that can be tricky - when used right it can make dark movements more mysterious, or it can make bright music more comical (is that what you were going for?).

The retransition from the Adagio back to the Vivace I thought was a bit abrupt.  Perhaps, if it were my piece, I would have brought back the F# major ostinato in the strings at the Adagio tempo and then slowly increase the tempo until I got back to Vivace.  But overall, I really enjoyed the Adagio part of the movement.  Especially when the strings started playing pizzicato it really gave it a Mahlerian dark character.  Which is why I thought the retransition back to the jaunty, bright and happy Vivace was so out of place after that.

Thanks for sharing!  I hope to review some more of the movements later on.

Hey Jonathon @ComposaBoi,

First congrats on the massive work! I would review the 1st movement first!

I feel like you have taken Bee's 9th Symphony as model haha! For me I would enjoy the music to be more in the faster Allegro tempo, given my traditional sense of a Symphony haha. The opening slow section is fine for me and I like your accelerando to the Allegro, but I feel in the Allegro you are not really developing the theme even though you have great voice exchanges and orchestration there, since the same figures are played interchangably. The harmony there is alternating I-V in g minor and I think you can modulate to other keys as well!

For the development I absolutely love your buildup to p.28's climax. But I feel like the build up itself is too long, particularly in a slow tempo and quiet dynamic for a long time. Your key changing there is nice, but I would want more tempo and dynamic change there!

I love your Allegro Section in p.29 much more than the previous one since I really feel there's development there! And the buildup to climax is very effective. For me personally the ending ends in triumph too early haha.

Thx for sharing!

Henry

Hi Jonathon,

It's surprising for me to have the 2nd movement in F# major in a D minor piece despite the previous movement ending in D major! String players always said F# major (or Gb major) difficult for string players but you are a string player yourself so I think that's not a problem!

You really capture the scherzo style, and I like those chromatic fallings before the end of it. I actually think both the modulation to the C# minor and changing the tempo to Adagio in the Trio section a bit abrupt. Maybe personally I won't change the tempo to Adagio, but that's subjective. Also you should change the key signature there! Like Peter said I love the pizzicatos there.

For me the retranstions works fine as it reminds me of the Scherzo in Tchaikovsky's Fourth Symphony.

Thx for sharing! I will finish the remaining two movements indefinitely haha.

Henry

On 12/9/2024 at 12:56 AM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

I do have to say that I feel like the orchestration is really missing a piccolo in my opinion.  There were some spots where the statements of the theme could have been expanded to a higher range with the inclusion of piccolo instead of just alternating between strings and the winds you already have.  I think measures 58 - 61 really could have benefited from the inclusion of piccolo.

I was trying to limit myself more with auxiliary winds with this piece lol, and I thought it worked fine, but I’ll try a piccolo, or maybe just use the very highest register of the flute. I’ll see what works.

On 12/9/2024 at 12:56 AM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

or it can make bright music more comical (is that what you were going for?).

Yup! 👍

On 12/9/2024 at 12:56 AM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Perhaps, if it were my piece, I would have brought back the F# major ostinato in the strings at the Adagio tempo and then slowly increase the tempo until I got back to Vivace.

I’ll try that too, but I’ll probably end up preferring how it is now 🤣

On 12/9/2024 at 12:56 AM, PeterthePapercomPoser said:

Especially when the strings started playing pizzicato it really gave it a Mahlerian dark character.

I may have stolen that accompaniment from the 3rd movement of Mahler’s second symphony 😬

Thanks for the feedback! I always appreciate it.

On 12/9/2024 at 2:42 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I feel in the Allegro you are not really developing the theme even though you have great voice exchanges and orchestration there, since the same figures are played interchangably. The harmony there is alternating I-V in g minor and I think you can modulate to other keys as well!

I think you said that last time, and I agree! It’s just difficult to compose with the fast chromatic runs 😭 the main thing is that the allegro part is my subordinate theme and I want the exposition to be successful in its EEC, so I need to not modulate TOO far xD but I agree. It gets a little repetitive 😅

On 12/9/2024 at 2:42 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

For the development I absolutely love your buildup to p.28's climax. But I feel like the build up itself is too long, particularly in a slow tempo and quiet dynamic for a long time. Your key changing there is nice, but I would want more tempo and dynamic change there!

Hmm. The problem might in part be due to the program because the dynamic there is forte and fortissimo, but I’ll start the crescendo earlier, maybe even make it start on fp to accentuate the cresc, and maybe I’ll make it molto accelerando instead of just accelerando 🤔

On 12/9/2024 at 2:42 AM, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

For me personally the ending ends in triumph too early haha.

Hehehe that’s what I wanted 😈

2 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

It's surprising for me to have the 2nd movement in F# major in a D minor piece despite the previous movement ending in D major!

The root note of the new home key is the note that the augmented chord was gravitating toward. Heard one after the other it makes more sense imo. Also, the keys of all the movements outlines a D augmented chord: D F# A#(Bb in this case for ease of reading and writing 😅) and D again. It’s all part of my massive big brain hyper-genius plan 🤯 (sarcasm)

2 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

String players always said F# major (or Gb major) difficult for string players but you are a string player yourself so I think that's not a problem!

I am actually not a string player! But my brother is and I always have him test my music lol. You’ll notice I have very simple bowing in this movement for the exact purpose of giving the string players an easier time lol. (Sorry lower strings 😬)

2 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

I actually think both the modulation to the C# minor and changing the tempo to Adagio in the Trio section a bit abrupt.

Hehehe, once again all part of my evil plan 😈 The light scherzo is meant to be “interrupted” by both the sighing motif and the english horn motif from the first movement.

2 hours ago, Henry Ng Tsz Kiu said:

For me the retranstions works fine as it reminds me of the Scherzo in Tchaikovsky's Fourth Symphony.

It’s nice to hear a second opinion, and interestingly, Tchaikovsky was a massive influence for this movement!

Thanks alot for the feedback, I look forward to your “indefinite” future comments! 🤣