How to start working as a composer.

Oh Gawd! Here goes!

Where can you get a job as a composer?

Prices vary greatly:

1 minute of game audio can be paid even 1500$ ! And if you think that usually games have at around 60 minutes of music then the 90,000$ are guaranteed!

But on the other hand, not every company is EA, or owned by Vivendi. You may be doing music for an indie game and get payed 100$ per minute! But wtf? Why not?

So how do you start?

find somebody to write music for him.

For a game, for a movie, for an animation short, for a documentary, for somthing else, for a theatrical play maybe...

Where?

In the internet! In the forums! There are plenty of forums that are game oriented! For game creators!

some links:

Adventure Game Studio

Gamasutra - The Art & Business of Making Games

GarageGames

DEAD:CODE Site - Home of the Wintermute Engine

Music 4 Games -- The Future of Rock n' Roll & Interactive Entertainment. Est. 1999.

CGEmpire Main Page

Indiegamer Developer Discussion Boards - Powered by vBulletin

(All the above are for games as you can understand of course).

Try the music related forums to get more info, and experience. Post your music, and post your ideas, collaborate any way possible:

KVR: VST Plugins | DirectX (DX) | Audio Units (AU) : Audio Plugin News, Reviews and Community (Effects, Instruments and Hosts)

Northern Sound Source

Soundsonline-Forums - Your favorite place for premium support of EastWest distributed products

Cubase.net :: Index (:D)

(music related forums)

I can tell you this: There are at least 400 games made that are freeware. Some of them look really professional. Go and jump on that wagon! Do you have anything better to do? After a couple of games you will be able to tell to your potential client, that "I've worked in that and that game ,and done that addition and those sfx". It's worth a lot!

I think that it's better to represent yourself through your own site, than the common ones (SC, or MS), but everyone to they're needs, choices and whatever...

Anyways.

When you first approach someone, you must have something to tell them in order for them to believe you are worthy composer. You must find something to tell them in order for them to go to your site (even if it's soundclick or myspace) and listen to your music. time is precious!

Find what it is that is speciall about you! Education? Concerts? Fanatic gamer? Something else? Experience maybe? Previous games? The way you write? Your name reminds them of something?

Make sure that your e-mail has something interesting to say. Find the easiest way possible to show them your music!

Find students to work with. If you are studying music, you think that there are no people studying cinema, or theater? Where do you think these people find music for their plays/films/documentaries/whatever? why not approach them first? Go to your university and check the drama department or the media department! Send them an e-mail and show them to you rmusic! They will love you!

Anything else, post about it. Can't come up with something else really right now.

:laugh:

EDIT: I edited the post a little bit, to be less offensive, (but the quote still remains to the posts bellow so people can still see part for the original). I deal with computer games and that's what I did in order to have what I have (whatever this means really). I don't know about film music, and I don't know about writing for ensembles. Still the basic principals do apply I guess (get to knwo people do something to get experience for free or not and move on to something better all the time. Find something to give to people when you meet them, your link, your CD, your card, something to remember you...). But everyone to their choices really.

Hoep this thread is helpful. If not it can always be deleted by me (edit deletion...)

Yeah...you could (for instance), write some music...start your own ensemble and play it.

...People do pay money just to go hear some live music y'know. We're not all in it for the big bucks.

I personlly loath soundclick, myspace and simmilar [sic] pages. It shows that the guy there does not have any money to invest in his career, and thus no will. Of course the community is there, but again... I do think that it's better to present yourself the way you want to and not how soundclick does for everybody. How on earth will you make a difference for youself if you are the same as another 3,000,000 people?

Why so negaive Nikky??...the guys on there show they have no money to invest? Perhaps (ye gads!) they're simply amateurs?! Lord knows most of them are. OR (heaven forbid) they're students (not unlike you and me) with no disposable income for full-colour spreads in Rollingstone, or to by 10,000 downloads of our own tunes.... Soundclick offers a great venue to put your stuff out there, to be found by like-minded musicians. Like I said, some of us just like the idea of our music existing, to be heard, performed and enjoyed.

I have "no will"? Because my stuff is on Soundclick?? [link]?! ...I'm not going to getting into this...I have grant proposals to write, and gigs to hustle for.

...

robin,

First of all as I see you have your own website, right? :angry:

This thread started off from the shout box where everybody starting asking how to get a job composing and so on. I write music for computer games personally, so I gave my opinion. (loath could be a too much word anyways... true)

But other than that I just gave the explanation to the quote you used, no?

Of course SC and MS offer great sollutions and anybody can just go and join. I won't stop anyone or do anything...

BTW, if they're amateurs why are they looking to get the jobs from the rest of the world who (god forbid) are not amateurs? I'm NOT a full-time pro or anything like that BUT:

I am a student (PhD)

I have 2 children and a family to support.

LEt's just not get into this kind of stuff.

Somebody asked me about this kind of thing and I gave my best answer.

If you like getting your music out there, that's fine adn I respect and I visit SC and MS many times and I enjoy listening to A LOT of music there.

Still my personal choice, was to make my own site. (btw, I do think that 6.99$ per month is not a huge amount to spend for hosting really...).

I bothered, and researched and did my thing to have my own site, you did the same and have your site. Somebody on SC maybe does not.

Go write your gigs and asnwer your proposals, all the best of luck. I've got to do the exact same thing (gigs=computer game in my case), plus my PhD.

Nikolas - I have issue with only one thing you said:

[re: Soundclick, MySpace users]...if they're amateurs why are they looking to get the jobs from the rest of the world who (god forbid) are not amateurs? I'm NOT a full-time pro or anything like that BUT:

(quickly, because I know you don't want to get into this...)

??

Who's looking for a job?! I pray no one is expecting to get a record deal/job/gig/commission/etc through Soundclick!! Mainly because 90% of the stuff on there sucks - they are true amateurs (i.e. for fun, not money). It's only useful purpose is to simply put your music out there (for good or evil).

If you want to be taken seriously as a composer you need something WAY more convincing than a poorly recorded/overdubbed pop tune. There's many things better to spend your time/money on: Business cards, a good press kit, 8x10 photos, 'real' demo recordings, an agent, website. Myspace/Soundclick and the like are still viable options to supplement your business plan, but surely not the only attempt at self-promotion.

Somebody asked me about this kind of thing and I gave my best answer.

...

A good answer it was, I just want to make sure other angles are represented as well.

...aaaaanywayyyy...

Back to the TOPIC: How to start working as a composer. Any other input?!

Nik and I both agree, put in the time/effort/money ... then hustle and starve for a while. Play freebies, write for cheap for friends, anything to jostle your name around. Go to concerts - meet the folks 'in the scene' ...

....

Exactly my point Robin :o

Actually yesterday I got an interesting call from an old "friend"... It's worth posting about it as it has a lot to do with what I posted in the first place.

While I was doing my MMus in composition, I wanted to do something more than just write music. So I went on and placed an ad on the Media Department! Well I got around 10 e-mails. I met 2-3 people and I decided to do music for a documentary called "lost person". It was nothing close to success.

But the girl who did the documentary, was really pleased with me so she introduced me to Chi Wang, a director from China, also studying in London at the media Department. Her documentary was about Pukai (and the tidal waves a couple of years ago?)

Anyways that documentary went aw lot better.

All for free mind you.

So 2 years after (yesterday), I got a call from Chi's friend (she's married so no weird stuff or anything), who is looking for a composer for 2 small commercial shots (paid) and if this gets funded then for a full time documentary.

Of course it is down to luck, talent and so on.

But in the end, I was the one to decide and keep contact with these people, and to give my time and talent for free, and to be nice to them (as I'm almost always). And it may pay out (can't tell if I will get the job (read funding) but still I feel mighty glad anyways...)

We did discuss over the shoutbox that you need to "know somebody" in order to get higher. Well... yes it could be true, but who is to say that the people you meet today won't be the heros of tomorrow? :P

PS. I do consider that it is of imperative importance to be able to "sell" yourself. Whether you feel that you're doing art or anything else, to be able to actually stir up interest for your music, and to make people even visit your site (which I did for Robin, as his opinions mattered, for example, and also for sethh because of his attitude), you need to be able to "sell" yourself. No negative meanings or anything. Promotion is far mroe important than anything else in the first stages. Later on you will have to prove that you are worthy, but this comes later.