Conducting:

After you've been conducting for a while and have some experience, you obviously won't follow the perfect motions as in the diagram, you'll begin to add your own slight twists to it. For the experienced conductors out there, what is your take on this, and how much adding of your own motion of the baton and also of your body is acceptable? What grip do you use, as well?

Hem... I have been taught a couple of years conducting, but don't count myself as experienced...

From what I see and what I think... (Toscannini school mind you),

The idea is that the baton still moves pretty much the same always, no matter the experience. There are "key points" on which the baton must pass, and these points are not missed not even once. These are the points where the orchestra knowns that the beat is on. Missing that is dissaster.

Unecessary movements mean tiring more easily. Imaing having to conduct for 30 minutes (or 4 hours, an opera of Wagner! :D)

The left hand though is a totally different story. The left hand is there to show the emotions, to make the orchestra feel, to make them understand, to make them...known what exactly you want. It is the path from you to the orchestra.

Body meovements again are unecessary. If the hands are doing the right job, there's no need for jumping up and down and all these exagerations you see some times...

That's all for me...

Wait for more posts, obviously as I'm not realyl experienced...

Well, as a conductor most of your work is done in rehearsals. It is never good to do movements that become distracting especially if they have no value in communicating to the orchestra. I believe prep beats/up beats/ and down beats and good cues are most important. Conducting these beats can vary from school to school. I was never found of the conducting technique that anticipated the beat for an entire piece. It drives me crazy! I do however realize the effectiveness of sometimes anticipating the beat depending on the musical issue at hand.

For some conductors the movements are often based on what they are conducting. If you are really into the Wagner style of conducting then you movements will be much different than those who conduct time with added expressive movements. There are those that conduct a combination of phrases and notes with very little to no time beating.

Seji Ozawa is an example of a person who's conducting use to drive me crazy. So, I decided to take the opportunity to go see him conduct a piece I was very familiar with, Bach B minor Mass. I left the concert with a great appreciation for Seji's conducting skill and I learned so much! Because I knew the B minor mass so well, I was able to see how his style makes sense. He is one of those conductors that reall conducts the all of the music with great anticipated cues. He doesn't condcut time whatsoever, but his condcuting of the phrase and notes perfectly communicates timing to the ensemble.

I guess I said all that to say, I think its takes good training and sensibility to come to a final decision about one's conducting style when it comes to what is necessary and what is superfluous.

After you've been conducting for a while and have some experience, you obviously won't follow the perfect motions as in the diagram, you'll begin to add your own slight twists to it. For the experienced conductors out there, what is your take on this, and how much adding of your own motion of the baton and also of your body is acceptable? What grip do you use, as well?

I wouldn't say so much "adding your own slight twists" as "removing unnecessary movement".

Each conductor has his own style, some more flamboyant, some less. And on a case by case basis, it works well for some ensembles, less well for others. It also largely depends on the level of the ensemble you are conducting, as well as the SIZE of that particular ensemble. I don't think minimal movement would work with a large, augmented symphony of 120 musicians, with a 500 piece amateur chorus behind it.

The conductor under whom I apprenticed used so little movement, there were times I had the impression that he had stopped rehearsal and wondered why the orchestra was still playing :) .

Conducting is ALL about clarity and getting your point across.

Two examples from my own experience:

I had less trouble with the amateur/student ensemble with which I performed Sweeney Todd than with the professional group I had for Into the Woods.

The former would jump at the slightest change in my movement, while the latter, for some odd reason, refused to respond to anything but the grossest and most over-blown movements... even for silly little things.

One reason for this is that I had the student/amateur ensemble for around 12 rehearsals (one of 6 hours!!! dream on!!!), while I had the professionals for one run-through (the first violinist thought she could sight-read Sondheim... HA!).

Thanks.

Are there any website resources or any place I could find described motions for the hand not portraying meter?

I would say... get on YouTube and look for videos of 'great' conductors. You'll find that a lot of skilled and 'ripe' conductors depart from giving the tactus occasionally and 'become' the music and the tactus themselves. I wonder how much experience and musicality you need to arrive at that stage. Until that time, the tactus is very much your foundation.

Bernstein is such an amazing conductor..