Stretching Your Wings - Best Methods

Right...

So because I have recently started - actually started - a project that is way outside my comfort zone of carefully ordered, restrained Classicism, I'm wondering:

What is the most effective way of extending our abilities in the craft/art of composition? Do any of you have a favourite way? Is it mostly listening? Or a combination of listening and reading from a score so you can see what's going on as it happens? Or do you just dive in and experiment?

Here's what brought this to the fore: I've been in rehearsals for a production of Wagner's "G

Originally posted by J. Lee Graham@Jul 11 2005, 01:03 AM

bloody piece

Anyway...the best way to extend your compositional wings is definitely to listen, and absorb well the type of new music you want to compose. Have a look at the scores to pieces you aspire to, although with music as unique and effective as Wagner's, seeing the scores could merely serve to either confuse or depress you (or both).

Do you even say that in LA? I thought it was a Brits-only phrase! :(

Mike, you'll find that I have distinctly British leanings for an American. You may have already noticed that use your colourful British spellings, for example, and I've spent enough time in Britain to be able to appreciate at least some of the vernacular...though I admit that I've had extended conversations with people from Yorkshire and the Midlands - or should I say, they had a conversation with me, while I nodded politely - without understanding half of what I heard. I was trying to pick up a bloke in a bar in Chester once, but I might as well have been in Warsaw...we couldn't understand each other, so we gave up, dash it all! But I digress...

with music as unique and effective as Wagner's, seeing the scores could merely serve to either confuse or depress you (or both).

That thought occurred to me. But it would almost be worth the ristk to see exactly how he notated certain things, and by what names he called for some of the brass. It wasn't the biggest orchestra I've ever seen, but it was indulgent to the extreme. Four individual Harp parts! 8 Horn parts, with the back four switching to Wagner Tubas in key spots, plus a Cow Horn, whatever the hell that is! Five Trombones, two with wierd extensions of some kind! And what appeared to be a Bass Trumpet, which I didn't even know existed in the 1870s. And those wonderful effects! I think I have to get that score.

Another question occurs to me: how in hell did they smash all that into an orchestra pit? I've played Tchaikowsky's "Nutcracker" for ballet companies enough to know that even that orchestra - modest in comparison - made things pretty tight down there. All I can figure is they must have opened the back and put half the orchestra under the stage.

Lee, I hereby dub you 'honorary Briton'. This may be a part-time status if you prefer.

Edit: I will give this thread due attention. The room must be in the mid 30's at the moment, so I will come back later and have a replying session when it's cooler!

What is the most effective way of extending our abilities in the craft/art of composition? Do any of you have a favourite way? Is it mostly listening? Or a combination of listening and reading from a score so you can see what's going on as it happens?

This past weekend, I had a kind of working holiday, if you accept the poor title for what it was. The weekend was full of pleasure and entertainment. I call it a working holiday as it included three events (only two of which I knew about before Stefan told me of a third possible one). The first was a concert of Steve Reich's 'Come Out', 'Pendulum Music', 'Vermont Counterpoints' and 'Four Organs'. The second was a concert of Philip Glass' 'Music with Moving Parts'. The third was a screening of short films. Before and after which were in-depth discussions between the two of us about the concert and what we can/should/want to do to further our own styles of composition. Much was discussed and we are to be very soon in the process of writing our thoughts collaboratively so try to make sure we actually do something about these thoughts lest we forget them.

This is how I further my cause of composition. Listening is the most important aspect of it. I want to learn the sounds rather than the written techniques. I then apply those sounds (if they are suitable for what I want) to my own notation and thereby continue the development of both my style of composition and the genre(s) in which I work.

Scores are more useful to me if I need to know a specific instrumentation or technique. In the music I now work in, this is rarely neccessary. Had I still been furthering my Shostakovich pastiche music, I think that a score would be very important.

Or do you just dive in and experiment?

No. Any experimenting I do will be after reading/listening/research.

I'm from the midlands, Lee, but I assume it was a 'Brummie' accent you were contending with. I sometimes have trouble with strong 'Brummie' accents myself, even after four years of studying in the area! When we meet, I'll do my best to speak in a broad Geordie accent. *grin*

Lee, I hereby dub you 'honorary Briton'.

I consider that an honour. :)

Is it a good - and just as important, expedient - way to stretch my orchestral and stylistic wings a bit?

I think it is so. After all, doing this will not *harm* your wings and therefore must develop their plumage into the most colourful display imaginable.

I hope that and my previous made sense. I'm currently a glass away from finishing a bottle of Californian Cabernet Sauvignon which is quite drinkable: therefore what I've said may not make a great deal of sense.

It made good sense. It's odd looking for such elementary guidance at this point in my composing career, but that's what I'm after.

I'm so pleased you're enjoying our California wines. Here in the States, they're often better than the French wines we get...but it's a little-known fact that the French only export their worst wines to the US. When I was in France, even the most ordinary vin du pays was wonderful. They keep the good stuff for themselves, apparently. Still, our California wines are quite good. Try also wines from Oregon (from the Willamette Valley) or Washington.

Interesting question!

I've actually found that my favourite way of getting to know music outside what I would consider my 'comfort zone' is through playing it. Admittedly, I've only a bit of experience performing non-classical music, but I've discovered it to be remarkably consistent at making me feel comfortable with and appreciative of music I initially dismissed. Listening or looking at the score, I'll still feel alienated to a degree, but playing it, gradually getting to know it from the 'inside' (anyone else feel that way?) helps me to embrace it, and quite easily. I realise a part of it may be the memories associated with a memorable performance, but the music does take on new meaning and value for me; this is what I feel is at least my 'way in', at least so far. (Not sure whether it'll apply to everything I come across, but we'll see!)

I concur. I ignorantly dismissed Mozart's music before I actually began playing it and looking at the scores.

How can anyone dismiss the Divine Mozart? ;)

no offence....actually i do not think that mozarts piano pieces are rich and subtle enough (interpret that any way you want) to be comparable with most of the romantics' work....

maybe you could change my mind? :P

go look at my last post in the fav piano concerto thread :)

Yeah, I think playing pieces is one of the best ways of getting to know them.

It does make you know the piece really well...and sometimes the composer as well.

The best is Time.

I used to hate 20th century music. I vowed I'd never like it. Well look what happened. I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't push anything. GO WITH The fllooooow! :cool: