Discussing music with a composer...

Hi, i'm a filmmaker and i'm working on my first big film with a music composer. And i dont have any experience with discussing music with a music composer. I've known the music composer for a few years and we've got a good relationship. But, when it comes to discussing the music, like, i'll tell him a bunch of things how i'd like the music to sound. But he's always having a hard time getting the music to sound right. Is it because of the lack of information on my part? Or is it the composer's problem? I'd like to give as much information and help as i can possibly give to the composer so he can get the music to sound right.

So, that's what i'm wondering. What do i tell the composer or ask the composer about the music? What are the key things that a composer would like to know about a certain track or sequence for the film to help him compose the music?

Any help or advice about this topic would be very much appreciated thank you!

Anyone have any advice or tips on the topic? I could really use some input from you guys. Or am i asking in the wrong place?

No, you're not asking in the wrong place... sometimes a thread gets forgotten, so thanks for bumping it.

I've never composed for film, but I do have a couple questions for you: first of all, what have you told your composer? And second, has your composer seen any video? It seems to me that the best thing that you could do for a composer is to let the images inspire the music.

You may want to ask compy-green for some tips - I understand that she's specifically studying film composition?

I guess this is difficult. I assume that this person has no experience with writing a film score.

Surely the intentions of writing music for a movie are very different from those of an art music composer. The composer is not creating music itself for the sake of music itself. But the composer will try to enhance the effects of the movie through music. This is going to ask different skills from a composer. If the composer has experience with programmatic music and orchesteral music then it is going to be much easier than for a piano composer interested in absolute music. You can't ask Chopin to write a excellent film score for example. He would have to learn that first.

Maybe you need to work really close together on this. You will need to learn about music and he will need to learn about movies. Communication is going to be difficult. I don't see an easy way.

Hey, thanks for replying, i appreciate it.

To answer your first question, its kind of difficult to explain what i've told my composer, i've given as much information as i could, mainly things like the tempo, the mood, the 'feel' i want out of the song...if that's even describable. I've also given him the tracks i listen to for a particular scene that i like to listen with the sequence, so that he'll get an idea of how the track should sound. I've given him a bunch of other information, but its sort of hard to explain that, its just things i thought he should know about that particular scene he's making the track for.

To answer your second question, i don't have any images yet. Tricky thing about working with my music composer is that, because i already knew him, i got him on the project right from the beginning, without even shooting a single frame yet. So he's writing the music, simply by the descriptions i've given him. However, this is about to change very soon, by the end of november, i should have the entire movie storyboarded in a 3d animatic and also if with any luck, i'll have the film shot as well. So he'll have that to look at while working on the film.

So yah, that's what's going on between me and the music composer so far.

Didn't see your post Prometheus, it got posted while i was posting mine.

Yah, my music composer has little experience, he's new to the whole music composing world, but he's got major talent though. He's made some wonderful pieces, but there remakes from another piece, but he didn't just simply remake it, he completely changed it up. The original piece was an old school song, and he turned it into an orchestral master piece. He hasn't only done remakes, he's made his own pieces as well.

And about the communication thing, that's another problem. As we live in different countries. We communicate through the internet. If i was able to talk with him in-person, we'd be able to whip up some music with no problem, while he's writing it right in front of my eyes. But thats not the case for me right now. I need to communicate with him via internet with a mic. Which is why i was wondering earlier in my first post. What are those crucial questions i should ask or crucial information a composer needs to know about the film to help him write the score?

So even more challenges. So he needs up to pick the language of music along the way also.

Well, I would think that viewing the scene that needs music is a must. Or at least something that resembles it. You are creating a 3d animation? If so then you could send him a bare-bone version, right?

There is not only the problem of inspiration and a feeling for what kind of music the scene needs, but also a practical problem. If you don't know how long the scenes are going to be exactly then you also don't know how long the music is going to be. Or where music changes along with the development of the scenes.

If one of my friends asks me to write music for his movie/animation I would really make a point out of her/him completing at least a version of the scenes that need music before I write a note. I can't write properly without seeing the scenes, at least I would imagine. Of course things can be discussed and moods pointed out but not much more imo.

I think you should send him the storyboard of each scene with the idea behind the scenes in terms of how it develops the storyline and how it should influence the viewers. Of course also other information about the plot, setting, characters, themes or whatever is important for this whole project.

You could also watch some movies or animations and see that the approach one can have to scoring a movie/animation can be very different. Some cartoons have really 'descriptive' music that can be more of a sound effect than music, actually. Some movies have really light music that you barely noticeble, often for strings only. Some movies have thematic songs(and I mean songs) or themes marking important points in the plot. You can go a lot of ways here.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I was working on the music for a student film and the filmmaker said she wanted the music to sound like a butterfly flying. So I wrote something for her which she rejected.

Then she said she wanted it to be darker, so I wrote something that sounded more sinister. Then she wanted it even darker so I wrote something as sinister as I knew how to make it. In the end she said my soul wasn't dark enough and didn't use me anymore for the project.

It would have been helpful if she had examples of music she had in mind for me to listen to which are similar to what she imagined but she couldn't give me anything. She mentioned artists that play that way but I had never heard their music before or If I had, didn't know who I was listening to.

It would be good if the symbolism was congruent. I haven't met many sinister/evil butterflies.

Anyway, she's right. My soul wasn't very dark then. :) Maybe it's darker now. :(

Gongchime