True crossover music

Today I had a small philosophical chat with a friend of mine, a rock drummer, about music. What was crossing our minds at the time, and is still hovering around my head as we speak trying to reach a conclusion, was the concept of crossover music, as you might call it. Mixing genres and mindsets to produce something new and hopefully better.

I see myself as a classical musician (based on habit as much as anything else--the mere fact that it's what I play and what I'm good at), but I've increasingly come to question my motives recently. Looking at our old "classical" tradition, with its roots in the 19th century, the lack of spontaneity, playfulness and creativity appalls me. The early music movement, with its focus on improvisation and increased interpretative "rights", provides some refuge, but the fact remains that it is based on materials, and indeed ideas, centuries old. Contemporary "classical" music is more interested in creating something wholly new, but it seems to have largely abandoned the old ideal that music should be beautiful--call me old-fashioned, but I am largely of this opinion. And I know that I might be stirring up some debate with this issue, but please don't take up that discussion here. Rock and jazz (I'd use the Swedish umbrella term "afro music" here--referring to the African-American roots--but I'm not aware of a corresponding English concept) place some focus on the creation of something new, as well as the search for beauty, but they often seem to me to lack the depth I find in classical music--additionally, these communities tend to seem aesthetically close-minded in some ways; I could talk more about this, but it would be a digression.

In short, it seems that music today tends not to live up to my ideals--at least not at the same time. The solution? Mix and match. Which brings me to the topic I started off with. Crossover music which attempts to mix elements of classical music with other genres is not unheard of, but it tends, I believe, to be very superficial. Usually, some melodies, chord progressions, timbres, or other largely superficial details are taken from one genre and reshaped to fit the mindset of another genre--but fundamentally the mindset is still entirely that of the latter genre. Cases in point are techno versions of "popular" classical melodies, or rock bands playing rock music with a string orchestra in the background. Rarely, if ever, is any attempt made to actually mix the mindsets. In fact, I can only think of one person who has attempted, and in many ways also succeeded, in doing this, and that is Frank Zappa.

But it would greatly sadden me if Zappa's death was also the death of this entire concept. So. Does anyone else care about such a crossing of mindsets, besides me, my drummer friend, and Zappa?

Crossover music which attempts to mix elements of classical music with other genres is not unheard of, but it tends, I believe, to be very superficial. Usually, some melodies, chord progressions, timbres, or other largely superficial details are taken from one genre and reshaped to fit the mindset of another genre--but fundamentally the mindset is still entirely that of the latter genre.

I don't think George Gershwin or Leonard Bernstein would be too happy hearing that!

:D

I think you're way, way off base; you're obviously listening to poor examples.

In particular, the lines defining the boundaries of jazz and classical have blurred considerably, to the point where they no longer exist. Virtually anything on ECM Records is classifiable as neither jazz nor classical, but posesses characteristics from both.

On the other side, jazz/rock - fusion what-have-you. I don't feel one genre borrows 'superficial' resources from another. Weather Report, scallopes Brew-era Miles, or Headhunters-era Herbie - they were all substantially immersed in both jazz and rock tradition - both of which were evolving genres at the time anyway.

Nowadays you get fuzak schlock like the Yellowjackets homogenizing and distorting the styles. I think you'll find, if you delve deeper into ANY musical style, you'll find elements of others infused and entrenched - perhaps not an identifiable influence, but certainly not a superficial borrowing of a chord progression either.

Suggested listening for jazz/classical:

John Surman - Free and Equal

Kenny Wheeler - A Long Time Ago

Markus Stockhausen - Still Light

Maria Schneider - Allegresse

Anouar Brahem - Thimar

All from established jazz players/writers, but the result is an unidentifiable, though distinct sound. Not jazz...not classical.

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...they often seem to me to lack the depth I find in classical music--additionally, these communities tend to seem aesthetically close-minded in some ways; I could talk more about this, but it would be a digression.

I'm going to ignore this...

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