Question About Violin Dynamics/Balance

I have this section in my concerto where the entire orchestra is playing f, with the solo trumpet playing ff in the high register, and I want to put the violin in fff, playing the attached passage. I think this passage (attached) is practical fff, but I want to make sure, and would it be heard above the whole orchestra that is playing f?

violin_part.mid

In general, the violin carries better if it's in a higher register. Without checking the exact notes that you've written, I believe that as it is now the solo violin will be drowned out. Consider transposing the entire passage, or at least parts of it, up an octave.

Thanks for your help! I tried it an octave higher and it is just fine, so I will have it up an octave. I heard that a soloist can go up to G or G# near the top of the piano or piccolo range, is that true? This part still only goes up to the E below that, though. I think my trumpet might be drowned out, even though it is in high register (C in the treble clef to D above it)--maybe that should go to fff also, or would that drown out the violin? Wow, dynamics are the hardest part of concerto writing!

If you're going to use the full force of the orchestra behind a solo violin part, there's going to be a strong chance that it will drown the violin no matter what register the violin is in. It's true that the violin carries better in on the E string, but put the violin part too high (ie. an octave above that) and the violinist will really struggle to make the instrument resonate especially if the part is moving quickly through several notes in that way. Trust me, it's very difficult to play loudly and resonantly in a rediculously high register unless you own a stradivarius which will do all the work for you. :)

Also with regards to your dynamic markings, if you put ff for the trumpet, the player is going to interperate that as "play bloody loud!". It doesn't matter if the violin part is fff because the violin simply isn't as loud and instrument as the trumpet. It doesn't matter if you write fffffff for the violin it won't be able to play any louder than the trumpet! Of course, the conductor will be able to inform the trumpet player that the violin part should be louder than the trumpet, but then the trumpet won't really be playing ff, will it?

A piece that you may find well worth studying, for balance between the violin and trumpet, is the Brahms Horn Trio - the violin has to make itself heard over the horn, which of course normally sounds a whole lot louder than a violin. Brahms writes much of the violin part high up on the E string, though not so high that it becomes difficult to play loudly.

Thanks for the helpful advice. :) I decreased the size of the orchestra in that passage to flutes (ripieno), clarinets, horns, tuba, timpani, 2nd violin, violas, cellos, basses, and only the flutes and the solo violin and trumpet are playing above the low or middle treble clef. And I will have the trumpet play f like the rest of the orchestra. Think it will work now? :D

I surely must have made you guys sick of me by now :) :P, but I have another question: can a solo violin do pizzicato loud enough in the lower three strings (mainly the D string) to properly accompany a middle register solo flute playing f (with violas divisi holding chords p in their lower register)?

Yes I think pizz mainly on the D string with only flute and violas behind should work. I think pizzacato on the lower strings of the violin resonate better because the D and G strings vibrate with a larger wavelength, so the sound isn't dampened as easily and the strings ring for longer. But of course pizzacato in a higher register may be more noticable simply because it's higher, it's just that the notes won't resonate so well.

This is about flute/trumpet dynamics, but it is for the same concerto so I might as well use the same thread. :ninja:

Which one is louder (if both were marked f):

1) a flute playing sixteenth notes (legato--which breathwise would be like half notes I guess) entirely above the treble clef, like A to A, or

2) a trumpet in its lower register, like A below the treble clef to A near the middle of the treble clef, playing eighth to half notes

Would either drown the other out, or would they be fairly matched? I know the flute is louder than the violin, but I am not sure how it compares to LOW register trumpet.