Lesson with Ceresz

In our first class with Ceresz (via email), I asked him to have a quick analysis of Bach Prelude 1 from well tempered clavier book. The piece is obviously very repetitive with the same arpeggio pattern all over. I asked why the piece works and what keeps the interest even if it is repetitive. And we had a quick discussion over the piece.

The second class, taking the Prelude 1 as a model, I asked Ceresz to compose a progression of chords, without any rhythm, just whole notes (potates) I asked him to write different chords on each bar for maybe 15-20 bars.

Ceresz, please complete this and attach the file to this thread.

**Please do not reply to this thread if you are not Ceresz, use pm instead. thank you**

Okay, before I begin with the second assignment let's just see I get what you're saying. Do you mean I should write a chord progression for Prelude no.1, and I can use the same chord again but not straight after the original one?

I hope I was clear enough, I just woke up :(

What I meant was that, write something totally your own. Write whatever you want to. If you want to limit yourself to classical harmony rules than do so, if not than be crazy and write whatever chord you want. I said take Prelude 1 as a model by means of one chord per measure.

This is going to be easy, I don't want you to finish a composition right now, just write progression as if it is an accompaniment to something. Think of it as the basis of your soon-to-be composition. If you get stuck, look what Bach did, how did he keep the flow, with modulations ? pedal tones ?

ok. just go and write something now ! :()))

EDIT: remember, only potatoes! ..

Thanks, I will :(

EDIT:

I added the attachment :P

lesson2.MUS

Ok, you have used triads, no problem with that, for your next assignment, we are going to enhance those chords with inversions and some 7th chords. I liked the progression, I feel that this is a good material that we can work on.

Your next assignment: and I want you to work more on this, work on this for couple of days. Don't rush it.

- I assume you already know 7th chords and their inversions. I want you to use some inversions and some seventh chords in there. Play around with it and see which chords you can "upgrade" to 7th chords. You can use both minor 7th's and major 7th's. No classical rules apply here! Its all up to you. Unless it sounds too odd. Use your ear as the judge, if it sounds good to you, then it's good !

-Make a plan, is this piece going to be in ABA, or AB ? or something totally different. I suggest we stick with these two. We can consider this progression as A. Write another "contrasting" progression which will be our B. Make this one a little different. Perhaps introduce some accidentals, obviously you haven't use a single one in your current progression. Ok, make it sound different, that's my point.

As I said before, don't rush this, make it in few days, until you are totally confident with it.

EDIT: and again if you get stuck, use this space to contact me.

Okay, I will start right now and in a few days you will have it :(

Oh, and can I change the key in the B part?

Haha, damn I suck at being patient :(

I already finished writing part B... and now I wan't to move on, but I guess I will live with it for a day or so before posting it... anyway, I will probably use an ABA structure.

Ok so you finished part b. I also asked you to use some inversions and seventh chords on A. have you done that too ? You worked on it a short time i guess. Now go on and ask yourself, have you liked what you have done ? do you see a potential on that chords ? If not, than there must be a problem..

I have added inversions and stuff on part A and well, the only problem with part B is that it get's a bit repetetive towards the end, hower I think that can be fixed with some interesting melody. I used a half cadence at the end of part B.

If you feel that you are ready, you can upload it now. But you are free to work on it some more.

I feel ready, however please after listening to it give me some pointers like, what I can improve.

lesson2_2.MUS

Good progress, you are working fast ! But I really encourage you that you give more time on composing. even if it is only poatatoes, have more patience and really like what you are doing. Play it over and over and ask yourself do you REALLY like it ?

You have added some seventh chords, that's good. But it is not consistent. The file that I uploaded I put some more 7ths and sometimes 9th chords so it will be more consistent. One thing we lack right now is continuity. There is no tensions, and resolutions. We need to put more cadances in there using dominant and diminished chords. I put some of my ideas on the score, its only to give you a bit more idea, I recommend you work on your own version. So far I am liking the A section, It could be good. As I said it only needs more tensions.

the B section needs a lot of more work. As you have already realised it is very repetitive. You need to give your piece more direction instead of coming back to same chords. I hope you know what I mean. I am not going to give you more ideas, I want you to work on it and realise what is wrong yourself. Your biggest problem so far is your patience. Otherwise I believe you can compose much better if only you can be more patient.

lesson2_2-1.MUS

Sorry for not posting in a long time but I am currently on vacation in Brazil so, well you get what I'm saying :( Anyway, I will try to post what I have as soon as I get back, I really want to move on.

Cheers!

//Ceresz

Okay, here it is, I'm not good at modulating so the change from C to D may still be a bit... awkward...

lesson_2_3.MUS

Ok Ceresz, before we move on with this piece I want to make some things clear.

We embarked on this piece taking Prelude 1 as a model. And so far you have been working on the chords of the piece which of course will serve as the basis.

All we need to do right now is to finish the chord progressions and have a solid background of the piece on which we can work further.

As we have given quite a long break from our sessions please allow me to catch up on what were going on the piece. I listened the last file you posted and it somehow sounded different than what we worked before.

I will post a reply on this and suggest you some modulations in a few minutes..

I think I got carried away and made so much adjustments to the B section. Thats because we needed tat difference. Before it didnt sound so different to be the B section. With these new differences I think it sounded more like a different section.

take a look at the adjustments I made. I used a pedal tone to modulate to the B section. Notice that I didn't go with strict harmony rules. That will give your piece more freedom. And take a look at the B section. I kept some of your ideas and I re-worked most of the B section. Only to show you how to achieve a different sound than the A section.

Ceresz, I normally don't make changes to my student's pieces. Lessons from internet is kind of awkward and I can only show you my ideas through this way. This is our first piece so lets go on like this, our next piece I don't want to make any adjustments. I will just make suggestions.

lesson_2_4.MUS

That's cool, I like what you did with the piece. I can't really think of anyhting I would like to change :P

So... what next?

What next ? the million dollar question.

Anything could be next. How about start working your way until the end of the piece from where I left off. The B section started of good this way and it should probably give you a motivation to work on it. at last that was my plan !

We only need like 6-7 more measures and we're done with this stage of composition. if you can just find how to end this piece, I'll go over it once more and we can discuss what we liked and what we didn't.

I'll do that :)

How about something like this?

lesson_2_5.MUS

My friend, during our sessions, I have noticed that you are not putting all of your effort to write this piece. Whenever I ask you to do something you work on it so fast and you present me something with little effort and little progress. I must say I am not so happy with the way we are going.

remember, even if you have little knowledge of composition or harmony this doesn't mean that you can't compose. You should compose music with all the information and knowledge you have. Work harder my friend . .

I think I need to put more pressure on you this time. Thats the only way !

I give you time until tomorrow evening to do the following questions. Go to your piano, take music paper and a pencil. There are 10 guys at your back all with guns at hand, they will shoot you if you fail to do this ! don't look back !

-Listen to the chord progression and ask yourself: Did you like it ? was there something inside that you thought was not nice. If you didn't like it, what was it that you didn't like

- Now that we have our chords, create an arpeggio pattern that you will apply to the chords. (Remember we took Bach's prelude 1 as an example)

Will you use only arpeggios chords or will you introduce a melodic line ?

Create a file in finale using your arpeggio pattern to show me. You can use only the first two chords of your piece

-Start to write a melodic line using the chord sounds. You don't have to finish this until tomorrow

and here is your chords, I did a little adjustment at the ending.

lesson_2_5.MUS

Trust me, I will work harder. I will try to play this piece, and work it out. I don't know why I did this before. It works on guitar so why shouldn't it on piano? I have become to reliable on my computer and finale I totally forgot what it's like to play and write. Just play something, a melody, a chord progression. It's quite hard to explain but I hope you do.

Thanks for reminding me of something I forgot :thumbsup:

This will help me tons!!!

From now on, do not use finale for composition. At least not for this class. Using a music software as a tool for composition surely limits your imagination and creativity. You should always use an instrument to compose. Get over a piano and improvise ! You wouldn't image how good material will come out, make some sketches and keep on improvising. Trust me, I never use computer to compose and whenever I try to do it (for example if I am in a rush) I feel that I am limited somehow. this is because you put unnecessary effort on putting those notes on the staff using your mouse and then listening it over and over again trying to get it done. whereas on piano, you just play it and hear at the first place and there is nothing that slows you down.

You might say, I am not a good pianist to perform some of the difficult things on my mind and then write it on the paper. Thats why some people use finale, to compose. Because they want to write difficult stuff which they can't play. I can't play piano either, how come I write compositions then ? Believe me you can.

Ok we will get back to this topic again if necessary, now you go back to work.

You read my mind :P

From now on I will only work with my keyboard or my guitar to compose, and I will use some sheet music to write the basics down so I won't forget them. Then I will use finale to notate them a bit more... professionally and so that you can here my piece.