College again picky pick pick

When going to be majoring in composition for the undergrad, would it be better to go to a more urban environment where new music may be more active, or out in the middle of almost nowhere but the level of university is of very high quality?

Humph....

Remember, this is my undergrad. ?=)

It's more important that you find a professor that you can work with and a program that actually cares about undergraduate students. Where the college is located is really your preference. You probably won't get your work performed outside the school unless you are extremely lucky, and even then, that could be anywhere, not just an urban city. It's also important that you find out how willing the students are on playing student composer pieces.

It would probably be more wise to consolidate your college questions into one topic, rather than making several topics, each devoted to one specific question.

I would say that an active musical environment would be better.

The two that I have limited it down both have very very active programs, just one has quite a bit in new music happening outside the grounds and the other not so much, and I'm curious whether as an undergrad this should make a difference to my choice.

I'm extremely fond of Robert Morris and his wide knowledge of music history and his intellectual mind but on the other hand Joel Hoffman's ability to identify and really dissect a piece is quite remarkable, I haven't seen any composer come close into actually know what is going on in a piece.

What's happening outside the school doesn't really effect you as an undergrad because all of your performers and performances are going to be at your school. You'd do well to pick a school with a good new music ensemble. Sometimes they let student pieces be performed...

Of course entertainment wise, you might enjoy a more urban environment. Here in Houston we have one of the most active arts scenes in the country, and new music is performed at several venues outside of the university environment, but rarely student music. Also we have clubs and really whatever you could want except gambling (and even then, there are clandestine poker rooms about and Lake Charles is only 2 hours away).

Small towns can be pretty boring man... It's really up to your personal preferences of what you want out of your time in college...

What's happening outside the school doesn't really effect you as an undergrad because all of your performers and performances are going to be at your school.

Please don't fall into this trap - what's happening outside the school should be of utmost importance. Expect a hefty one or two shows per semester at university (if you're lucky)...you NEED to get out there.

I may go into more detail...but suffice it to say, an academic environment will NOT give you a clear view on how the 'real world' actually works.

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You'd do well to pick a school with a good new music ensemble. Sometimes they let student pieces be performed...

I'd hope, if you're at all interested in being a composer you'd circumvent this by starting your own friggin ensemble. It's easy - plenty of students around (though they're notoriously difficult to work with: "I'm soooooo busy, I don't have time" ... boo hoo).

The point I want to get across is that the school isn't going to help you gain any experience. You need to do it yourself. Sure, you'll learn how to write (hopefully...but this is certainly not guaranteed), but you get no actual experience in putting all of it together: writing, hiring, rehearsing, booking...

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...and new music is performed at several venues outside of the university environment, but rarely student music.

The reason for which is because the school doesn't organize it, and the students are too lazy...

Ha ha, well this is good to know, instead of awaiting a response from Eighth Black Bird, Alarm Will Sound or even the world renown Kronos Quartet, I will start my own ensemble :P

Which is in all truth, what I really want to do. I really do question the ability to do form a group as an undergraduate, mainly because it seems that all the great opportunities are given to grads, while the undergrads are how you say? "paying their debts"

(debts not used in financial terms[which I'm sure they will be] but more so in learning and have a true grasp of the basics of music history, theory, performance)

...I will start my own ensemble :P Which is in all truth, what I really want to do. I really do question the ability to do form a group as an undergraduate, mainly because it seems that all the great opportunities are given to grads...

You shouldn't have any trouble - provided you have sufficient drive, passion, and energy to see the project to fruition. If the players start slacking or complaining, make sure they know the're replaceable. If they don't want to be there, find someone who does - which, at a university filled with pianists and violinists isn't a difficult task.

The mindset that "I'm just an undergrad, I'm not good enough to perform my own music yet - I'm still learning" is bullshit. And, to be honest, many undergrads write better than a lot of master's students. Composition isn't really something learnt in academia - if you've got it, you're set from day one. You'll quickly see that just because someone's further along in their studies, they're not necessarily any better than some freshmen...

Ignore all that - you should want to show up any grad students. Make them go "scraggy...why does undergrad have a show at [insert local New Music venue] when I can't get one?!" If you're talented and driven, make it happen. Don't wait four years and then try and build a career - start NOW!

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All that said, keep in mind that you're heading to school to study with someone. Find the right professor, and then evaluate your situation. You're in a small town? So be it, make it happen from there...there's music to be made in any setting.

I enjoy your attitude, if I head to Rochester, we should work together. :cool:

I drive to Toronto if you drive to Rochester :)

I may need a green card though ?:toothygrin:

I enjoy your attitude, if I head to Rochester, we should work together. ;)

I drive to Toronto if you drive to Rochester :)

Seriously - it's only about 3 hours away. If you ever have need for an improvising trombonist, let me know! Also, if you have an ensemble and want to take it on the road, I'll help out finding venues and such...

:D

speaking of colleges, im coming to the age where im starting to think of it (sophmore) and i have about a 3.8 culmalative gpa (taking out p.e. which colleges dont count, since i get C's in them for being tardy, haha) and i am takin some honors and ap's

the colleges i've been thinkin about were USC, UCLA, UC Berkley (#1 public univ. in the country) and julliard (haha, yea, like IM gonna get in)

UC Berkley has an ok/not the best places to get ur pieces performed, but i live 20 minutes out of berkley (im talkin about berkley california, right outside of san francisco) and i know a lot of people who would play my pieces, USC, and UCLA (more of USC) i've heard admazing things about their music programs, i have classic music connections down there, so there would be a chance of my stuff getting performed

USC would to me, seem like a place where grads dominate, not sure though

With a lot of graduate students around could be a benefit for you, I know my composition teacher who went to CCM was mostly surrounded by grad students and he spoke of during the student composition concerts it was very normal to juxtapose a BM composition then with a DMA composition. Surrounding yourself with students of a higher caliber sounds like a good thing to me.

?=)

With a lot of graduate students around could be a benefit for you, I know my composition teacher who went to CCM was mostly surrounded by grad students and he spoke of during the student composition concerts it was very normal to juxtapose a BM composition then with a DMA composition. Surrounding yourself with students of a higher caliber sounds like a good thing to me.

?=)

As long as the program doesn't focus on nothing but graduates, then it's a great idea to be surrounded by grads. I know here we have some grad students with *amazing* work that's really inspiring, but there's still a strong emphasis on teaching everyone composition, not just the grad students.

I guess that also goes with something else I suggest. Look for a program with a composition department where all of the students are truly integrated. It seems that a lot of the time, composition programs are each student doing their own thing with a teacher. Having interaction with other composition students and knowing what they are doing is really the best way to grow yourself.

Surrounding yourself with students of a higher caliber sounds like a good thing to me.

For sure - as long as you pay attention. Having high quality (emphasis on quality colleagues around will force you to rise to their level.

As long as the program doesn't focus on nothing but graduates...Look for a program with a composition department where all of the students are truly integrated. It seems that a lot of the time, composition programs are each student doing their own thing with a teacher. Having interaction with other composition students and knowing what they are doing is really the best way to grow yourself.

re: grad focus: I think this is less a fault of the school, as it is a fault of lazy/frightened undergrads not getting involved.

re: integration/interaction: of course. You will ALWAYS have students working one-on-one with a prof, and (hopefully) they'll all be doing their own thing. There should also be a collective class - usually a seminar or lab where composition students consort/critique/compare pieces and techniques.

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