The Top 5 composers

You are telling US to educate ourselves??? I'll have you know, Saulsmusic, that your latest source calls Mendelssohn "One of" the greatest composers... I'm afraid you must have missed that phrase...

Truly, he isn't a shabby composer, or else he wouldn't be remembered. But he is by no means the God of music.

As for Mark... Are you sure Beethoven's the one that resembles God??? I never imagined God as a disheveled mess...

... In all actuality, Beethoven was an amazing man who, although he may have been disheveled, made more than up for it in his music.

Can you guys stop comparing G-d to Composers. Its so out of line.

No composer is a g-d. It's crazy to think this way.

Now to your Mendelssohn comment...:

Felix Mendelssohn is widely considered as one of the greatest composers the world had ever had. I personally consider him, the greatest composer.

Now,, Mr. Cowboy claims that Mendy is not even a great composer and to add the pepper.. he suggested that the scale-twister Russian named Prokofiev is even greater.

Now.... I have read 5 different biographies on Mendelssohn, including the latest one by Professor Larry Todd, a respected Mendelssohn scholar and musicologist. The book is a long one about 800 pages. I also read many articles about the composer. I have also listened to the majority of Mendelssohn's works. I can guarantee that Felix is easily a much much Much greater composer then Prokofiev. I'm so sure of it that when I put Mendelssohn's and Prokofiev's music one next to the other, the latter one is a Joke compared to Mendy.

This could be turned into an intelligent debate rather then immature name calling.

Cheers

If it's any help, Mendelssohn didn't consider himself the greatest by any means.... If I may have a few seconds to go copy and paste a few things, I'll show you who some great composers considered the best (and I'm only going to concentrate on Bach and Handel right now- sorry, this will be long)

Handel-

Dr. John Arbuthnot (1667-1735)- "Conceive the highest you can of his abilities, and they are far beyond anything you can conceive."

J.S. Bach (do I really need to put the years)- "[Handel] is the only person I would wish to see before I die, and the only person I would wish to be, were I not Bach."

Mozart, on Bach's comment- "Truly, I would say the same myself if I were permitted to put in a word"

William Boyce (1711-1779)- "He takes other men's pebbles and polishes them into diamonds"

Gluck- "The inspired master of our art."

Joseph Haydn- "He is the master of us all."

Mozart (again)- "Handel understands effect better than any of us -- when he chooses, he strikes like a thunderbolt... though he often saunters, in the manner of his time, this is always something there."

Beethoven...- "Handel is the greatest composer that ever lived... I would uncover my head and kneel down on his tomb."

"Handel, to him I bow the knee."

"There is the truth."

Now, onto what people thought of Bach

Beethoven- Not Bach but Meer should be his name

Mozart- Now there is music from which a man can learn something.

And now for the people during and after Mendelssohn's time on Bach...

Berlioz- Bach is Bach, as God is God

Chopin- Bach is like an astronomer who, with the help of ciphers, finds the most wonderful stars.

Debussy- And if we look at the works of JS Bach - a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity - on each page we discover things which we thought were born only yesterday, from delightful arabesques to an overflowing of religious feeling greater than anything we have since discovered. And in his works we will search in vain for anything the least lacking in good taste.

Rimsky-Korsokav- I had no idea of the historical evolution of the civilized world's music and had not realized that all modern music owes everything to Bach.

Schumann- Music owes as much to Bach as religion to its founder.

Verdi- O you happy sons of the North who have been reared at the bosom of Bach, how I envy you.

Wagner- the most stupendous miracle in all music!.

Brahms- Study Bach. There you will find everything.

Mahler- In Bach, the vital cells of music are united as the world is in God.

and finally,

Mendelssohn on Bach- ...the greatest Christian music in the world...if life had taken hope and faith from me, this single chorus would restore all.

I'm to tired to do one on Mozart...

These quotes are all relatively easy to find online... and I'm pretty sure that even if half of them had been fabricated, my point would still be proven.

Well, this has been an interesting debate and I have enjoyed reading it. I have to say, I know prokofiev very well (his music that is) and I agree with Cowboy that the 2nd concerto is better than the 3rd. Really tremendous cadenza, like ever building waves of sound. Mend. is of course a brilliant composer and is rightly seen as such, but as soon as you start talking about great composers, it gets thorny. The top 5's I have read are wildly contrary to my own, which I will list below. This is in part to my love of all music, not just of the classical/romantic era.

Saul, you mention that Mend. was known as one of the greatest prodigies? Ever hear of a guy called Saint Saens?.....

I feel that this is all opinion and it is not right to belittle anyone's view, we all take different things from music and the language of certain composers. Cowboy has such a long history of study and experience within music that he know's so much about the subject as to be able to make a clear and concise point but Saul , you seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder, as if you are looking for a fight all the time?

Anyway....to my all important list....

Top 5 composers....my opinion, nobody else's but I shall try to explain why.

(This is not in order, just my top 5)

1. Steve Reich (not only able to write music that the listener can relate to and take emotional fulfillment from, but founder of so much that exists in our lives today such as sampling, trance and electronic music etc. His impact is felt throughout all the musical genres. Check his stuff out if you have not so far to hear what all the fuss is about!)

2. Samuel Barber ( I think as well as being innovative in music, I respect those more who are able to say things honestly and sincerely with the tools that have been around for so long without ever being cliche. Barber has written some astounding music as well as being prodigious as a pianist and most commonly, a fantastic baritone. Adagio for strings deserves its fame but look at his later music.

3. Bach (I think really this needs no explanation, emotionally fulfilling, architecturally satisfying and effortlessly beautiful.)

4. Scriabin (Sadly neglected and ridiculed for his outlandish ideas, but consistently shows that he was looking way beyond his lifetime. We hear so much in books about Schoenberg yet I hear so much more in Scriabin. His Piano Sonatas should be studied by all)

5. Frank Zappa (Sometimes we have to look beyond just the notes on the page and Zappa has shown an uncompromising and powerful stance in the history of popular and contemporary music. His own views on music, politics and life are prodigious and his command and verbal intelligence makes him a truly inspirational speaker. His music may not always be 'great' but his views and ideals as a whole show greatness that I feel will reverberate in years to come.

End communication....lol

oh, and I was not insulting God (or G-d) in any way by comparing Beethoven to him...

To consider Beethoven divinely inspired would be a great complement towards any proof for God's existance, mr. Saul... not an insult by any means.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure you started the name-calling.

This is the last you will hear from me on this subject, Saul.

Whatever your opinion on Mendelssohn, I do not share it.

I am not alone in not sharing it.

Before you start passing judgement in so presumtuous a manner, you should go out and GET a music degree.

You have demonstrated a pathetic lack of knowldge of the repertoire by slandering quite a few great composers, notable among them Prokoviev.

I have attempted to be civil and show you that there is room for more than one opinion. You have consistantly attacked the credibility of anyone contradicting your opinion about Mendelssohn. In this thread alone you have destroyed any potential good will towards you that could have been salvaged at some later date.

*****

I encourage everyone here to not throw oil on the fire and to leave this entirely useless debate behind. View it as a learning experience in how to deal with obstinacy.

You feel like a hero now..?

Yes. you have a degree.. so? Are you the ultimate musical authority here?

Why cant I debate you? Why cant I claim that Mendelssohn is the greatest composer? Why this bothers you?

You have not demonstrated with any means that I'm wrong. Yet , you still shut me down...and tell others to do so... Why do you care if I speak about this? Let us have a discussion. I want to talk about it. You don

Can you guys stop comparing G-d to Composers. Its so out of line.

No composer is a g-d. It's crazy to think this way.

Please come to the serious discussions forum and join in one of the many debates on God (with an o) we have going :whistling:

Well, he has more musical authority than you...

Yes. you have a degree.. so? Are you the ultimate musical authority here?

Not really, but so many people are telling you the same thing.

We are not degrading Mendy! We are simply saying that he is not the greatest composer of all times. Why is this so difficult to accept?

Well, he has more musical authority than you...

Oh.. man...

are you trying to turn this into an authority competition here?

:whistling: :w00t:

It bothers him that you attempt to engorge everyone else into your opinion as if it were written-in-stone fact... just as it bothers the rest of us.

QC has attempted to debate, you just call all of his (rhetorically developed, well-written) arguments as void, and your sloppily written, hastily copy-pasted arguments from "professionals" as the most solid thing on the earth.

Not really, but so many people are telling you the same thing.

We are not degrading Mendy! We are simply saying that he is not the greatest composer of all times. Why is this so difficult to accept?

Nikko,

I can accept that you dont think Mendelssohn as the Greatest but I can never accept that he is not a great composer or that Prokofiev is greater.

This I cant and will never accept.

not unless you want it to be an authority competition... I'm merely saying he has much more experience in music than you do, and has a lot of solid opinions that are worth RESPECTING, which you seem not to do.

I cant and wont use apostrophes.

Well, since the "my opinion's better than yours" card seems to be a valid one, I'll do this just to see what'll happen...

And so begins my (short, abridged) satire on what you are doing...

Handel's better than Mendelssohn... always has been, always will be... and I don't even need to underline anything for emphasis since I'm a genius and none of you are... Handel's better than Mendy because he's been there for longer, and he's a genius... I have a bunch of websites that support my claim, I'm so smart! You're all just too dumb to realize how much better Handel is than Mendelssohn...

I say it'll hit the bookstores by May.

That's exactly what you're doing to all of us.

You feel like a hero now..?

Yes. you have a degree.. so? Are you the ultimate musical authority here?

Why cant I debate you? Why cant I claim that Mendelssohn is the greatest composer? Why this bothers you?

His problem is not that you claim that Mendelssohn is the greatest composer, it's the fact that you seem to not understand that it is your opinion and attacked anyone who didn't think that Mendelsshon was the greatest composer.

I would suggest that you, first, calm down. Your love of Mendelssohn's works can definitely be valid, but understand that there are people who love others' works as much as you love his.

This thread is really stupid. Are you attempting to come up with a list of the "best" composers? Something like this can't be rated on a scale.

This reminds me of an event that transpired today in one of my classes. We were looking through some of Schoenberg's work that's laden with Sprechstimme. This girl, who was obviously hearing it for the first time, exclaimed, "Yuck!" after the piece was finished. And then we watched the last few scenes of Wozzeck. I'm sure she enjoyed that.:)

The point is, you have to expand your horizons. You can't expect to be a well-rounded musician if you don't get out of this bubble. No one is saying that your like of Mendelssohn is wrong, but it's obvious that you haven't expanded your horizons enough to really tell why you like Mendelssohn so much. It may be that you grow to find that you don't admire his music as much as you do now, it may not.

Just my two cents.

Keeping in the nature of this thread, I suppose I'll list a few composers that I admire, though I could list quite a few.

Menotti - I think I've heard enough of his opera work to see that he really understands creating music (and librettos for the ones that he did his own.) that can really drive the drama on the stage.

Prokofiev - Really wonderful music, though I'm nowhere near exhausting his catalog.

Schoenberg - Again, I'm not anywhere near exhausting the catalog, but his music is very interesting considering his intentions. Sometimes, I may not "like" it, but I think it's a very interesting object of study.

And the list goes on and on...

As for Mendelssohn, he's done some wonderful work, and there's definitely many things to admire in his music.

Handel is a very great composer and one can have a good debate about Mendy and Handel.. but Prokko and Mendy???

PUUUULLLIZEEE!

STOP THAT!

GOD!

Yes, you can have a good debate about 'Prokko' and 'Mendy' (If you claim to love him so much, shouldn't you use his full name?) , but you're being so immature, so it's hard to!

This is EXACTLY what everyone is talking about!

And it's why I think you're being annoying!

I haven't heard any music from either of them.

So I'm not biased.

STOP THAT!

GOD!

Yes, you can have a good debate about 'Prokko' and 'Mendy', but you're being so immature, so it's hard to!

This is EXACTLY what everyone is talking about!

And it's why I think you're being annoying!

I haven't heard any music from either of them.

So I'm not biased.

Yes it's so immature of me to disagree with you guys.

:) :cool:

No, it's so immature of you to reject anything to do with Prokokief (sp?) like you are.

No, it's so immature of you to reject anything to do with Prokokief (sp?) like you are.

He wrote some inovative and cool music but nothing Great.

I wouldn't know.

Whatever,

this entire discussion is dumb.

He wrote some inovative and cool music but nothing Great.

As you keep saying. As has frequently been rejected by others on the basis of subjective personal taste.

Why does this trouble you so? Why must everyone conform to your own opinions? Why are they not allowed their own?

I can guarantee you that repeated obstinance and arrogance is a sure-fire way to prevent anyone from taking you seriously in life, much less take to you on an internet forum or respect any future propositions you may put forth. So stop it, now, for the benefit of yourself and others. Learn that people differ with their varying tastes. Moreover, learn that there is nothing you can do to change that fact - certainly not scold them for it with absolutely no objective basis behind your words!

He wrote some inovative and cool music but nothing Great.

And am I allowed to disagree with you?

Well, since "top 5 composers" is, in my opinion, a stupid goal for a discussion, I'd rather name some works I admire greatly:

Prokoviev, piano concerto no.2 (arguably the most difficult music ever written for the piano)

Prokoviev, Alexandre Nevski, cantata (one of the great vocal works of the repertoire)

Prokoviev, piano sonata no.7, last movement (one of my all time favourite piano pieces)

Prokoviev, Alla and Lolly / Scythian Suite (ballet music, one of the most brilliantly orchestrated orchestral "tour de forces")

Prokoviev, Suggestion Diabolique (another that's just so darned fun to play)

Prokoviev, The Love for Three Oranges (just a whole lot of fun! it's hysterically funny and full of wonderful tunes and beautiful choruses)

Ernest Bloch, Avodath Hakodesh (one of my favourite religious musical works)

Samuel Barber, Prayers of Kierkegaard (one of my favourite philosophical musical works)

Leonard Bernstein, Symphony no.3 "Kaddish" (one of my favourite "subversive" musical works)

I hope maybe my list wil push some people to go exploring. I am not listing these works as "the greatest" of anything, as I don't really believe in that nomenclature (well, I'm a bit biased when it comes time to talk about Sibelius' 7th symphony), but they definately are among works I listen to with great regularity, and are, I think, worth getting to know.

Hey, Cowboy...

Do you have a name?