Lesson with luderart

Ok, good.

Now we will continue with Non-Dominant 7th chords. In review, a Dominant 7th chord is build on scale degree V of a scale and a triad with a minor 7th attached. A Non-Dominant 7th chord is build on a scale degree other than V. This chord is a triad but with a Major 7th attached.

For example:

C-E-G-Bb is a Dominant 7th because of the minor attached to the triad

C-E-G-B is a Non-Dominant 7th because the interval of the 7th is Major.

Make sense?

Ok, good.

Now we will continue with Non-Dominant 7th chords. In review, a Dominant 7th chord is build on scale degree V of a scale and a triad with a minor 7th attached. A Non-Dominant 7th chord is build on a scale degree other than V. This chord is a triad but with a Major 7th attached.

For example:

C-E-G-Bb is a Dominant 7th because of the minor attached to the triad

C-E-G-B is a Non-Dominant 7th because the interval of the 7th is Major.

Make sense?

Yes :)

Ok, please make Non-Dominant 7th chords on the scale degrees and in the keys that I list.

1) C Major - ii

2) F Major - vi

3) Eb Major - IV

4) C# Major - I

5) D Major - iii

6) Gb Major - vii

Ok, please make Non-Dominant 7th chords on the scale degrees and in the keys that I list.

1) C Major - ii

2) F Major - vi

3) Eb Major - IV

4) C# Major - I

5) D Major - iii

6) Gb Major - vii

1) C Major - ii: D - F# - A - C# (But the non-dominant 7th built on the note D, the 2nd degree of C Major, does not belong to this scale)

2) F Major - vi: D - F# - A - C#

3) Eb Major - IV: Ab - C - Eb - G

4) C# Major - I: C# - E# - G#

5) D Major - iii: F# - A# - C# - E# (But the non-dominant 7th built on the note F#, the 3rd degree of D Major, does not belong to this scale)

6) Gb Major - vii: F - A - C - E (But the non-dominant 7th built on the note F, the 7th degree of Gb Major, does not belong to this scale)

Ok, I would like for you to redo these exercises. I think there was a misunderstanding. I believe my explanation was partial and not clear. I basically gave an explanation of a Non-Dominant 7th built on the 1st scale degree. My apologies. Non-Dominant 7ths built on other scale degrees will be triads that belong to the given key and the added interval of a 7th will either be minor or Major. For Example if we build a Non-Dominant 7th in the Key of BMajor on scale degree ii it will be: C#-E-G#-B. This is a minor triad with a minor 7th added. I hope this clears up the error and confusion on my part.

However, the chords that you did give in the various keys will come back again but with other functions.

1) C Major - ii: D - F - A - C

2) F Major - vi: D - F - A - C

3) Eb Major - IV: Ab - C - Eb - G

4) C# Major - I: C# - E# - G# - B#

5) D Major - iii: F# - A - C# - E

6) Gb Major - vii: F - Ab - Cb - Eb

I have a question. Do I need to learn how to distinguish between Dominant and Non-dominant 7th chords when I hear them played on the piano?

1) C Major - ii: D - F - A - C

2) F Major - vi: D - F - A - C

3) Eb Major - IV: Ab - C - Eb - G

4) C# Major - I: C# - E# - G# - B#

5) D Major - iii: F# - A - C# - E

6) Gb Major - vii: F - Ab - Cb - Eb

Ok good these are correct now after I gave you the proper information :blush:

I have a question. Do I need to learn how to distinguish between Dominant and Non-dominant 7th chords when I hear them played on the piano?

Yes, you should always practice and train your ears to hear various intervals, harmonies and harmonic movement. You will notice the distinct difference between a Dominant 7th and Non Dominant 7th quite easily.

I will post another lesson this week.

Sorry for the delay, things got quite busy for me again.

For this exercise I will list some chords and you will determine whether or not the chord is a Dominant 7th or Non-Dominant 7th chord.

By the way have you tried hearing the differences between the chord types on the piano? Is there anything you've noticed?

1) Eb-G-Bb-D

2) B-D#-F#-A

3) C-Eb-G-Bb

4) Ab-C-Eb-Gb

5) Db-F-Ab-Cb

6) A-C-E-G

7) D-F#-A-C#

Sorry for the delay, things got quite busy for me again.

For this exercise I will list some chords and you will determine whether or not the chord is a Dominant 7th or Non-Dominant 7th chord.

By the way have you tried hearing the differences between the chord types on the piano? Is there anything you've noticed?

1) Eb-G-Bb-D

2) B-D#-F#-A

3) C-Eb-G-Bb

4) Ab-C-Eb-Gb

5) Db-F-Ab-Cb

6) A-C-E-G

7) D-F#-A-C#

Myself sorry for the delay this time. I was quite busy and the delays seem to be disrupting the continuity of the lessons and getting me out of rhythm.

Here are my answers:

1) Eb-G-Bb-D Non-Dominant 7th chord

2) B-D#-F#-A Dominant 7th chord

3) C-Eb-G-Bb Non-Dominant 7th chord

4) Ab-C-Eb-Gb Dominant 7th chord

5) Db-F-Ab-Cb Dominant 7th chord

6) A-C-E-G Non-Dominant 7th chord

7) D-F#-A-C# Non-Dominant 7th chord

I listened to Dominant and Non-Dominant 7th chords on the piano and this is how I would describe the difference I heard:

The Dominant 7th is more urgent, shrill, unsettled and dissonant than the Non-Dominant 7th chord. This is my subjective evaluation. I wonder how it compares to the general opinion and to your own particular opinion.

Thanks.

Myself sorry for the delay this time. I was quite busy and the delays seem to be disrupting the continuity of the lessons and getting me out of rhythm.

Here are my answers:

1) Eb-G-Bb-D Non-Dominant 7th chord

2) B-D#-F#-A Dominant 7th chord

3) C-Eb-G-Bb Non-Dominant 7th chord

4) Ab-C-Eb-Gb Dominant 7th chord

5) Db-F-Ab-Cb Dominant 7th chord

6) A-C-E-G Non-Dominant 7th chord

7) D-F#-A-C# Non-Dominant 7th chord

I listened to Dominant and Non-Dominant 7th chords on the piano and this is how I would describe the difference I heard:

The Dominant 7th is more urgent, shrill, unsettled and dissonant than the Non-Dominant 7th chord. This is my subjective evaluation. I wonder how it compares to the general opinion and to your own particular opinion.

Thanks.

Good all your answers are correct. I understand what you mean about the Dominant 7th feeling more urgent. The urgency comes from the triton interval between the 3rd off the chord and the 7th. In context of a composition it could be up to debate as to which type of chord creates a more urgent feeling at what particular time.

Ok, it now seems that you have a good firm understanding of basic triads, dominant 7ths and non-dominant 7ths.

What I'd like for you to do is to write a progression of about 8 chords. One progression in a Major key and one progression in a minor key. For now use your ears and combine triads, dominant 7ths and non-dominant 7ths. After you create these two progressions we will then discuss how they work or don't work in a traditional sense and why.

Good all your answers are correct. I understand what you mean about the Dominant 7th feeling more urgent. The urgency comes from the triton interval between the 3rd off the chord and the 7th. In context of a composition it could be up to debate as to which type of chord creates a more urgent feeling at what particular time.

Ok, it now seems that you have a good firm understanding of basic triads, dominant 7ths and non-dominant 7ths.

What I'd like for you to do is to write a progression of about 8 chords. One progression in a Major key and one progression in a minor key. For now use your ears and combine triads, dominant 7ths and non-dominant 7ths. After you create these two progressions we will then discuss how they work or don't work in a traditional sense and why.

Here at last are my answers. I am attaching them in Finale Notepad. I hope they make some sense.

8ChordProgCHarMinor.MUS

8ChordProginDMajor.MUS

Ok, sorry for the long delay. I will download these and get back to you real soon.

Ok, I took a look at the progression.

First I would like to start with the progression you created in C minor Harmonic minor.

Here we have a problem. The progression is supposed to be in Harmonic minor but if you were to go back and examine the progression you would see that some of your harmonies do not come from the C minor harmonic scale. Instead the progression and tonal center has some ambiguity which is not what we are aiming for in this case. I would like for you to go back and examine some of the harmonies and make the changes needed to reflect "Harmonic" minor. Also I would like to you to have the progression start and end on the Tonic Chord.

Next is the progression in D major. I like this progression but here again I would like for the progression to begin and end on the Tonic Chord. The last two chords of your example gives an unsettling feeling for the progression. For now, usually the resolution of the leading tone is up to the tonic and that of the Sub-Dominant is down to the mediant when dealing with harmonies and chord progressions.

Ok, I took a look at the progression.

First I would like to start with the progression you created in C minor Harmonic minor.

Here we have a problem. The progression is supposed to be in Harmonic minor but if you were to go back and examine the progression you would see that some of your harmonies do not come from the C minor harmonic scale. Instead the progression and tonal center has some ambiguity which is not what we are aiming for in this case. I would like for you to go back and examine some of the harmonies and make the changes needed to reflect "Harmonic" minor. Also I would like to you to have the progression start and end on the Tonic Chord.

Next is the progression in D major. I like this progression but here again I would like for the progression to begin and end on the Tonic Chord. The last two chords of your example gives an unsettling feeling for the progression. For now, usually the resolution of the leading tone is up to the tonic and that of the Sub-Dominant is down to the mediant when dealing with harmonies and chord progressions.

I corrected the progressions in accordance with your comments.

I have some questions:

1) Why is it necessary to begin and end in the Tonic Chord? I ask because this is creating an additional limit since it is already only 8 chord progressions (something which already limits the imagination).

2) I noticed that it is much more difficult (in terms of having it sound correct) to fit a 7th chord into the progression. Is that true for you and others also? If so, why is this?

3) Are the Subdominant and the leading chords always in need of a resolution?

4) I know that triads have first and second inversions. What about 7ths? Do they also have inversions? If so, do they have 3rd inversions in addition, since they have 4 notes?

5) Is there any rule, regarding progressions, about writing minor and major triads (or minor and major 7ths) in succession? Is it OK if we change frequently in the progression between minor and major chords?

6) Would you have accepted if I had written a progression in the Natural minor? I restricted myself to the Harmonic minor because we cannot have a dominant 7th chord in the Natural minor.

8ChordProgCHarMinorCorrected2.MUS

8ChordProginDMajorCorrected.MUS

I corrected the progressions in accordance with your comments.

I have some questions:

1) Why is it necessary to begin and end in the Tonic Chord? I ask because this is creating an additional limit since it is already only 8 chord progressions (something which already limits the imagination).

2) I noticed that it is much more difficult (in terms of having it sound correct) to fit a 7th chord into the progression. Is that true for you and others also? If so, why is this?

3) Are the Subdominant and the leading chords always in need of a resolution?

4) I know that triads have first and second inversions. What about 7ths? Do they also have inversions? If so, do they have 3rd inversions in addition, since they have 4 notes?

5) Is there any rule, regarding progressions, about writing minor and major triads (or minor and major 7ths) in succession? Is it OK if we change frequently in the progression between minor and major chords?

6) Would you have accepted if I had written a progression in the Natural minor? I restricted myself to the Harmonic minor because we cannot have a dominant 7th chord in the Natural minor.

1)The reason I asked you to begin on the Tonic is so that we can at first work with a more traditional approach and understanding. Usually but not always starting a progression with the tonic and then working around the Sub-dominant and Dominant harmonies helps to solidify the sense of key.

2)For some it may be a little difficult to use harmonies that employ 7ths simply because there is an added "richness" that can be seen or treated as "dissonance" that sometimes "sticks out". When creating harmonic progressions is always key to consider the individual notes of the chords as independent voices that are following their own paths that included times of consonance,dissonance and resolutions.

3) For now the Subdominant chord does need a resolution as the progression will sound unfinished.

4) Yes, 7th chords do have a 3rd inversion because of the added 4th note. So in that case you are given an additional option.

5) Remember that you will have both Major and minor chords that exists in any one key. For example in the Key of C Major the ii chord is a d minor triad. So for now as long as you are staying within the given key you may use all types of diatonic (natural) harmonies of the scale.

6) Yes, natural minor would have been ok but I do prefer the Harmonic minor because the Harmonic minor scale gives you more options for triadic harmonies right away.

I like the corrected progressions you offered much more.

Ok, so now here is the opportunity to discuss the traditional view of scale degrees. For now I will talk about a few scale degrees and their "movements" in a progression or in voice leading.

These practices are not set in stone but for now I'd like it if you consider them more often than not.

1) I'll start with the Leading Tone. Typically the Leading Tone "likes" to resolve up by half step.

2) The Sub-Dominant "likes" to resolve down by half step and sometimes up by whole step.

3)The Sub-Mediant "likes" to resolve down by whole step.

For now these three practices I'd like for you to keep in mind. Now I'd like for you to go back to your progression and consider what you have created. Right now there is nothing "wrong" with your progression but with these 3 Practices I listed I'd like for you to think about perhaps think about adding some adjustments to your progression so that some of the notes involved in your progression has a purpose driven sense of movement. You don't really need to change the types of harmonies unless you'd like to.

If you give it a try and have problems or are not quite sure let me know so that I can give you and example using your own progression.

1)The reason I asked you to begin on the Tonic is so that we can at first work with a more traditional approach and understanding. Usually but not always starting a progression with the tonic and then working around the Sub-dominant and Dominant harmonies helps to solidify the sense of key.

2)For some it may be a little difficult to use harmonies that employ 7ths simply because there is an added "richness" that can be seen or treated as "dissonance" that sometimes "sticks out". When creating harmonic progressions is always key to consider the individual notes of the chords as independent voices that are following their own paths that included times of consonance,dissonance and resolutions.

3) For now the Subdominant chord does need a resolution as the progression will sound unfinished.

4) Yes, 7th chords do have a 3rd inversion because of the added 4th note. So in that case you are given an additional option.

5) Remember that you will have both Major and minor chords that exists in any one key. For example in the Key of C Major the ii chord is a d minor triad. So for now as long as you are staying within the given key you may use all types of diatonic (natural) harmonies of the scale.

6) Yes, natural minor would have been ok but I do prefer the Harmonic minor because the Harmonic minor scale gives you more options for triadic harmonies right away.

I like the corrected progressions you offered much more.

Ok, so now here is the opportunity to discuss the traditional view of scale degrees. For now I will talk about a few scale degrees and their "movements" in a progression or in voice leading.

These practices are not set in stone but for now I'd like it if you consider them more often than not.

1) I'll start with the Leading Tone. Typically the Leading Tone "likes" to resolve up by half step.

2) The Sub-Dominant "likes" to resolve down by half step and sometimes up by whole step.

3)The Sub-Mediant "likes" to resolve down by whole step.

For now these three practices I'd like for you to keep in mind. Now I'd like for you to go back to your progression and consider what you have created. Right now there is nothing "wrong" with your progression but with these 3 Practices I listed I'd like for you to think about perhaps think about adding some adjustments to your progression so that some of the notes involved in your progression has a purpose driven sense of movement. You don't really need to change the types of harmonies unless you'd like to.

If you give it a try and have problems or are not quite sure let me know so that I can give you and example using your own progression.

Before I try following them, I have some questions about these three practices:

1) In case the scale is a minor scale:

a) The resolution up half step from the leading note becomes whole step.

b) The resolution down by half step from the Sub-Dominant becomes a whole step.

c) The resolution down by whole step from the sub-mediant becomes a half-step.

So, do these three practices only apply to major scales?

2) In case a tone in lets say the 2nd or third line of the harmony happens to coincide with the resolution of a tone in the first line, does that count as a resolution, or does it have to be in the first line to count as a resolution for it?

Maybe after all, and as you suggested, I need you to provide an example with my progression, pointing out the parts where you change my harmonies in accordance to these three practices, in order to understand what you are talking about. Later I can rewrite my progression according to the practices, having better understood their use in practice.

Before I try following them, I have some questions about these three practices:

1) In case the scale is a minor scale:

a) The resolution up half step from the leading note becomes whole step.

b) The resolution down by half step from the Sub-Dominant becomes a whole step.

c) The resolution down by whole step from the sub-mediant becomes a half-step.

So, do these three practices only apply to major scales?

2) In case a tone in lets say the 2nd or third line of the harmony happens to coincide with the resolution of a tone in the first line, does that count as a resolution, or does it have to be in the first line to count as a resolution for it?

Maybe after all, and as you suggested, I need you to provide an example with my progression, pointing out the parts where you change my harmonies in accordance to these three practices, in order to understand what you are talking about. Later I can rewrite my progression according to the practices, having better understood their use in practice.

1) The resolution from the Leading tone is always a half step whether in Major or Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor. In Natural Minor it would be a whole step. The aim of the Leading Tone resolution is to get to the Tonic.

2) The resolution of the Sub-Dominant in the Minor would become a whole step and not a half step. The aim of the Sub-Dominant resolution is to get to the Mediant.

3) And yes, the resolution of the Sub-mediant would become a half step instead of a whole step. The aim of the Sub-mediant resolution is to get to the Dominant.

4) For now, The resolution should happen only whenever there is an opportunity in succession from chord to to chord and in any of the three parts of the chord only where there is an opportunity. I have provided a couple examples for you.

Resolution example.MUS