Lessons with MonkeysAteMe

Note: ownership of this post has been changed to enable compatibility with Lessons System

I am having lessons with Daniel and he has asked me to post the current piece I am working on.

It is a trio for two violins and viola' date=' and I am interested in developing themes and variations.

I have created another thread with these pieces postedhttp://www.youngcomposers.com/forum/string-trio-7614.html

The mp3s and pdfs are linked there.

(As a warning the dynamic markings are just for electronic playback)

Trio I. Adagio.MUS

Trio II. Andante.MUS

Trio III. Allegro.MUS

I have a problem in that my ISP doesn't let me download much after 4pm, but I will try and download the finale 07 demo by tomorrow.

Ok. I just listened to the Adagio, and there are a few things I want to comment on.

Firstly, you seem to have a decent grasp of harmony. That does not cause any problems in the movement. The problems are caused by the harmonic progression. Viz., the movement from one harmony to the next. In places this is just unconvincing, and needs to be worked on.

E.g., measures 6-7, although in this case, it's not so much that the harmonic progression is weak, but it's decidedly weakened by bad voice leading. You have both violins jump from one register to another between these two measures, and that entirely precludes any chance of a smooth transition. You need to be wary of things like this.

I don't know why you had the bass (i.e., viola) so loud all the time. The effect was rather distracting. I would have lowered it in volume to be in line with the violins. As for the bass-line itself, there are some comments to be made.

Again it is a problem of leaping between registers. Take measures 10-11 for example. While this sort of leap can be dramatic and expressive, it makes little sense in this context, especially when the viola is functioning so much as the bass of the ensemble. This happens elsewhere in the piece. You will need to develop a continuity in your writing of the parts, so that the piece does not have a feeling of disjointedness.

I take issue with measures 17-18. Here we have a chromatically rising bass-line, and the D# really does need to resolve to an E. I do realise though that you're going for a different, and somewhat more modern mood with the trio though, so I suppose less traditional strictures may apply.

On the subject of the trio, you were going for a more modern feel, yes? I find it a little jarring, stylistically, having the rather traditional Adagio being contrasted with the more modern trio. I would suggest incorporating elements of the other into each section. Make the adagio more harmonically interesting, and trying to incorporate the trio into the adagio to result in a more cohesive whole. I do realise that the trio is for contrast, but such stylistic contrasts don't often work very well.

I know that this is a slow movement, but I also would have liked to see more use of a solid theme or themes. Doing so would give you plenty of opportunity to add interest to the violin parts, which are almost only accompaniment to the viola.

I would like you to change the things I have suggested, although do what you want to do, don't completely bend to my ideas. If you disagree with something, please tell me. If you want to ask anything, also please tell me.

I will try to get around to the other 2 movements in time.

It's a good start from which to work. You have a fairly solid grasp of harmony, which is more than many beginner composers can boast.

Daniel

Firstly, you seem to have a decent grasp of harmony. That does not cause any problems in the movement. The problems are caused by the harmonic progression. Viz., the movement from one harmony to the next. In places this is just unconvincing, and needs to be worked on.

I believe the harmonic progression is adequate could it perhaps be the sudden change in register? Like around 10-11?

E.g., measures 6-7, although in this case, it's not so much that the harmonic progression is weak, but it's decidedly weakened by bad voice leading. You have both violins jump from one register to another between these two measures, and that entirely precludes any chance of a smooth transition. You need to be wary of things like this.

I tried to smooth out the change in register.

I fixed that part and hopefully made a smoother transition.

I don't know why you had the bass (i.e., viola) so loud all the time. The effect was rather distracting. I would have lowered it in volume to be in line with the violins. As for the bass-line itself, there are some comments to be made.

Again it is a problem of leaping between registers. Take measures 10-11 for example. While this sort of leap can be dramatic and expressive, it makes little sense in this context, especially when the viola is functioning so much as the bass of the ensemble. This happens elsewhere in the piece. You will need to develop a continuity in your writing of the parts, so that the piece does not have a feeling of disjointedness.

I lowered the volume of the viola line, and I tried to lessen that leap around 10-11 (now an F# to A). It still is a leap, but hopefully it won't be so akward.

Were you talking about the sudden low E?

I take issue with measures 17-18. Here we have a chromatically rising bass-line, and the D# really does need to resolve to an E. I do realise though that you're going for a different, and somewhat more modern mood with the trio though, so I suppose less traditional strictures may apply.

I resolved the D# to an E then went on to the C#.

On the subject of the trio, you were going for a more modern feel, yes? I find it a little jarring, stylistically, having the rather traditional Adagio being contrasted with the more modern trio. I would suggest incorporating elements of the other into each section. Make the adagio more harmonically interesting, and trying to incorporate the trio into the adagio to result in a more cohesive whole. I do realise that the trio is for contrast, but such stylistic contrasts don't often work very well.

I know that this is a slow movement, but I also would have liked to see more use of a solid theme or themes. Doing so would give you plenty of opportunity to add interest to the violin parts, which are almost only accompaniment to the viola.

I don't understand about the traditional Adagio/Modern trio (could you explain), but I was going for a more disonant modern feel. The violins(only in this movement) actually are accompaniment to the Viola. I was trying to go for a sort of jarring/minimal piece and that's why I put the sudden register changes and the lack of a real theme. I understand that the idea may not have come together well in the execution.

Thanks.

Updated(I didn't change much).

Trio I. Adagio.MUS

I'm not posting from home here, so I can only offer minimal advice.

I believe the harmonic progression is adequate could it perhaps be the sudden change in register? Like around 10-11?

No - the harmonic progression is weak in places. Partly caused by poor voice leading/leaps in register/and just weak progressions.

I don't understand about the traditional Adagio/Modern trio (could you explain),

The piece seemed to have a rather contrasting middle section - it was much more modern than the rest of the piece. This is what I meant - it's not a trio, technically, but has some of the same characteristics.

but I was going for a more disonant modern feel.

Yes, this is what I was talking about. You create quite a nice modern mood in the "trio", but in the rest of the Adagio the harmony etc. is too "traditional". You can't have such a stylistic shift in the middle of a piece, it destroys any cohesiveness.

I was trying to go for a sort of jarring/minimal piece and that's why I put the sudden register changes and the lack of a real theme.

Yes, I can understand what you were going for, but you didn't quite pull it off. Now, there was some interest developed in the "trio" section, but without having any real theme, without the violins doing anything more than providing mere accompaniment, and with very traditional harmony, you really are going to fall into the trap of creating boring music.

I suggest introducing a theme to the main adagio section.. even some sort of fragmentary motive; something for the listener to catch hold of.

I see you don't plan on changing much of your piece, but I would still advise following out (to some degree) what I have suggested.

I will listen to your other movements when I get home.

I'll look into the harmonic progression some more, but I still don't understand about the "trio". I was using that label because of the number of voices. Is there a trio format that I am not aware of?

"- it's not a trio, technically, but has some of the same characteristics."

What do you mean by technically? I don't think I am familiar with what you are talking about.

Which part is the traditional and which is the modern?

Thank you.

I'm borrowing the term from the traditional form of minuet and trio.

Minuets are very often found with contrasting inner sections called a trio. This name originally comes from the instrumental scoring, but has long since been scored for a wide variety of instruments. The trio is usually something in a different mood and/or scoring to the surrounding minuet, and acts as a contrast.

This is what I was getting at when referring to your inner contrasting section.

I have added some thematic material to both the traditional adagio and the more contrasting trio section. It is not much, I'm still hoping to be on the minimal side, but I hope it is enough. Also, I took out the large register changes that were distracting.

Hopefully the piece ties together a little better.

Here it is.

Trio I. Adagio Adding what Daniel suggested.MUS

I'm ready to continue lessons with you.

If you would like to continue working on this trio, then that's fine. If not, please let me know on what you'd like to work.

Here's a small piece I wrote. I've been writing mainy small pieces like this lately so I can work on having a connected and flowing piece. I've got some more, but I like this one the best ( I can post the others if you want).

Not sure if that A7 chord fits but I like it...

piano SOng(3).MUS