Lesson with Foxhull (Orchestration and Percussion)

Hello,

In this lesson, I will be working with Foxhull to help him through a personal project of his, which basically involves writing his piece "Sound and Silence" for full concert band instead of just mallet quartet as it appears now:

Sound and Silence - Mallet Quartet

In addition, we will explore the wonders of complex percussion orchestration and ways to make it work well within the confines of a concert band setting without overpowering the rest of the instruments.

This particular piece lends itself well to a lesson like this because it plays like an exercise. The way it's structured and developed will make it ideal for learning some basics of creative orchestration in an incidental style using basic classical orchestration roots.

The first thing that I need you to do is post the details that you have about the ensemble that you'd be writing this for. We'll need to know what instruments are available, how many of each, and preferably a general idea of the performers' skill levels. We'll move on from there once that's posted.

This lesson can be open for public participation on the condition that Foxhull approves the right for other forum members to arrange his piece according to the structure of the lesson.

So Foxhull, with your post please let us know whether everyone else has permission to participate or whether you'd prefer this to remain a private lesson. ;)

Public lesson.

OK, my high school band has approximately:

15 Flutes(+Piccolo if needed)

15-20 Bb Clarinets

3 Bass Clarinets

10-15 Alto Saxes(+ soprano sax if needed)

2 Tenor Saxes

2 Baritone Saxes

Possible a Bassoon

20 Bb Trumpets

5-6 French Horns

10 Trombones

2-3 Baritones/Euphoniums

2-3 Tubas

15 Percussionists (including a few mallet players, and one can play piano)

That is the Symphonic Band, which is everyone, and most of them fairly talented, and some are downright amazing players (the percussion section leader, and flute section leaders, for example). If there are any others that I missed, I will post them.

Wow, that's a fantastic ensemble. 20 trumpets is going to be pretty fun to work with...:)

What made me smile though was the 15 percussionists - we're going to make sure they have the time of their life playing this arrangement of yours.

So here's what I'd like to do from here on in. Because you've already got yourself an arrangement of this piece for mallets, I'd like you to start by creating a score which will encompass your entire concert band, and then keep it handy. More importantly, I want you to look over your piece and get a firm idea in your mind of how you want to orchestrate (I'll use the term since "concert-bandistrate" sounds a bit tacky) it and whether or not you want it to be structured the same way as the mallets version.

When you know how you'd like it to end up, post a brief written summary detailing how you want it to be structured, how you'd like it to develop and what you're intending with the piece in terms of mood, energy level, etc.

Use any terms, words or formatting that you need to express yourself best. The reason I ask you to do this is because having a written outline helps keep a sense of direction - otherwise with such a large ensemble it's tempting to just sort of "go nuts".

Also, thank you for allowing this lesson to be public. Anyone else who is following the thread and is interested in participating, please either post to say so or Pager/PM me about it and we'll see about tailoring the exercise to help you as well.

No set deadline, but try to have it posted within a week if circumstances allow; this isn't a major thing.

Good luck :)

My written outline is notes on the mallet score, saved as finale file, so if you think I'm skimping, that's just how my mind works:toothygrin:

here is the score with the notes

Sas - Notes on Orch.MUS

Hey, I'm gonna be at camp from 3 PM Sat to next Friday. So if you can get me something for me to do during that week, it would be appreciated. And beware, I'm learning to play the bugle during that week, it's a merit badge:stoicjedi::):blink::excl:

Hey Foxhull,

I took some time to look over your notes and try sketching some things out myself to get an idea of how this could work out, and I think your notes are good as they are.

I'm going to be away from the first of July to perhaps mid-August, so I want to give you a next step that can give you something to work on until then.

Having seen your outline, I'm confident in your abilities so what I'm going to ask of you is that you work on producing a full arrangement of this piece for the ensemble that you detailed above. It doesn't have to be final and it can (and should be) full of notes. As you work on it, if there's any section that has you unsure or that you have a question about or anything like that, put a little note in and move on and we'll address it when I take a look at it.

Essentially, you're putting together a draft of the arrangement. I want it to be as complete as you can have it given your schedule between now and when I get back. Try to think of how much time you'll have and then work on this version accordingly; if you have lots of time then go into more detail with the complexity of your parts and the length of the piece (if you're going to be adding parts). If you won't have too much time, then just focus on getting those notes translated into actual written form with a sketchy version of the final product.

You basically have until I get back. I probably won't have internet access while I'm gone, so that's why I suggested that you just sketch in any questions as notes on the score for when I get return to look at them.

Good luck and ask me any questions now before July 1st :o

Sorry, don't have it yet, but I will soon, I had a REALLY hectic summer:horrified:. School just started, and my independent study class came through, so I can work on it there, with some help from my teacher as well. So I should have soon. Again, sorry.

No worries, I know all about hectic summers. :) This is your learning, so you take it at whatever pace you need - I'm just here to guide and help!

Well, the good thing is I now have a car, my driver's license, and a job.

http://www.freewebs.com/foxhull/SaS%20%2D%20Orch.mus

That is what I got done in class today, it will updated more tomorrow.

Alright, it looks like you've got your template then. You don't have to do the whole dailiy updates thing; I'd prefer that you took some good time to make a solid contribution to the amount of work and then came to me when you had a question or something of the like.

Like I said, there's no hurry here, so work on it and show me when you've got a good start going :laugh: Unless there are questions, of course.

Just to let you know, I have finished 104 measures, so I'm almost done.

Wonderful, looking forward to it. :P

OK, here it is, there are a few changes from the notes, but other than that, I followed them. Tell me what ya think.

SaS - Orch Rough Draft.mus

Alrighty, so I've taken a look at your draft and I'll leave you with my comments and your next task.

What you've done here is a wonderful job of expanding the piece to fit the given ensemble. Your choice of which instruments to mix together where is actually quite good. I see that you've already started working in some dynamics and such, which is good too - it shows me that you already have a vision of how you'd like the performance to sound. I enjoyed the syncopation you've got going on between pages 4 and 5; keeps the motion of the piece feeling fresh.

Now let me gently tear it to pieces for you so that you can see what you need to work on for the next draft:

First off, a specific little thing: get rid of the bass marimba line in the slow section, starting right near the end of page 6. The reason is that the percussive, woody sound completely screws up the mood you've got going on up until then - throws off the mellow feel.

Now the biggest concern I have is that you've done very little actual "orchestrating" with this draft. What you've done is take your original musical lines and copy and paste them into various different instruments. As I mentioned, the combinations themselves are great, but for the wrong reasons.

For this next draft that you need to do for me, I'd like to see you take this foundation that you've made and start doing some orchestrating. Here's what I mean. Start with some rhythmic variation - all you've got going on here are two or three different rhythms MAX through the full spread of your ensemble. Have one instrument hold a nice low legato line while another plays with accenting stabs while another chimes in with the occasional brief arpeggio while another carries the melody while another comes in overtop with a simple but effective countermelody while another....you see my point. Don't limit yourself to what you've already written.

Now that you're writing for more instruments, you need to make sure that you spend time on each individual part and give it a personality all its own. Make sure that when your performers get their part, they're each happy with it. Every instrument in your ensemble should have a defined role, at least at some point within the piece. If it doesn't, then get rid of it.

So basically what I'm saying is, your next step is to start thinking in terms of individual instruments within the ensemble and go over what you currently have. In the end, you should have massively revised the individual parts to make the orchestration interesting, rhythmically-diverse between parts, harmonically thick (where appropriate) and interesting.

This step should take a while because I really want you to pay attention and do a detailed job. If you need me to work through some of it with you, drop me a line. Any questions, same thing.

Good work and good luck!

I'm posting this because I want to make sure I'm on the right track, but this is what I've gotten done in the past few weeks.

SaS - Orch Revision 1.mus

Here it is, tell me what you think.

SaS - Orch Revision 2.mus

Sorry for the pause, it's been a busy time for me.

To your piece. The orchestration is sounding much nicer this time, as I hope you'll agree - it's richer and the piece sounds much more mature. I liked how different statements of the theme were orchestrated slightly differently, and I appreciated the way you developed the theme throughout the piece. Very good work here.

Nevertheless, there are still some nit-picky problems with it. However, because I'm something of a weirdo like this, we're going to completely ignore them for now and, for that matter, this entire piece. The reason is that you should never be focussing on one single piece for too long, and now that this one is done to this point, we're going to leave it and move on, and then, once you've gleaned some new knowledge from the new activities, we'll come back to this one. For now though, please put it safely away and don't touch it. :)

Now then, for your next task, I have devised something to help you with your percussion writing, which was the second aspect that this little course was supposed to help you develop. So here's what we're going to do, in short: write a concert band march in the style of such amazing band composers as James L. Hosay. I'm going to assume that you've perhaps not heard any of his work, and so I offer the following two samples to get you familiar with the style. I like to describe him as the John Williams of the concert band - you can see for yourself whether or not you agree.

The first is called Black Granite and unfortunately my fragmented recording of the piece is of spectacularly bad quality, but it's still useful to listen to so go ahead and see what you think.

Black Granite - eSnips, share anything

This second one has better sound quality and is going to serve as something of a model for you. It's called Symphonic Fortress and is essentially a big, powerful march for full concert band. Enjoy!

Symphonic Fortress - eSnips, share anything

Now, with both of these, I'd like you to pay particular attention to the way he utilizes the percussion section to augment the other instruments. He demonstrates percussion writing that's fairly typical of good concert band music, which is why we're going to be using him as a guide. I'm not going to bother insulting your intelligence by going over every single thing he does, but as a general idea, notice how he accents beats with cymbals, how he carries the rhythm with the snares and uses them to give interest, how the chimes and mallet percussion add amazing flavour, etc etc.

With that in mind, you're going to construct a march of your very own, as I said. The style will be much the same as his: with thick and complex orchestration, interesting harmonies, and - duh - good use of percussion.

To get the ball rolling, I want you to start off by coming up with a rhythm that you want to use for the march, because that's important. It can be a basic 4/4, that might be worth using for this piece since we want you to be able to focus on the piece without having to worry about fitting things to a quirky rhythm. Once you know that, see if you can come up with some basic melodies/harmonies that you consider appropriate for a march.

I'm looking for an upbeat, but not necessarily happy piece. It can be very dark and menacing if you can pull it off, I'd certainly enjoy it. Either way, see what you can come up with and let me know if you've got questions or need help! :)

Good luck and good work again on your previous assignment!

Alright, I did a LOT of research on the style and form of marches, and I wasn't getting anything for a while. I ended up doing a jazz arrangement for the jazz combo in my school, and now that I finished that, I tried the rhythms and chords for a march again, and it is now flowing better. Here is the result.

March Basics.mus