Contest

Contest for music composers

I'm holding a contest for music composers. We've finished our first 9 hour set of audio language CDs for infants (birth to age 2) but they have no music. Each CD contains 25 languages. We already have about four hours of (donated) music and sound effects, but we need at least FIVE HOURS more in a broad variety of non-vocal styles. There are 114 final sequences which average about 4.7 minutes each.

You can listen to one (a "language-string") at Language-string Audio Track.

Our CDs (without music) are currently heard by many infants. The new CDs with music will be widely promoted. Also, in due course 9 hours of video will be produced with the sound from these CDs. If you have a piece or pieces (any lengths) that you are really proud of, you can make a real impact with a very receptive audience.

The contest is open for anyone to enter, the best tracks will win free exposure and a link on our website for your webpage/business website/whatever you want and on every site the audio or video gets posted on. They will likely find their way on to youtube, metacafe, etc as well. There will be free exposure in the literature distributed with the CDs and videos. Also the winners get all of our CDs and videos free and 2 hours of Akilo party songs (in 25 languages) -- you can hear 50 of these songs at 100 AKILO Party Songs.

Please send inquiries/submissions to akilo26@yahoo.com

Please send submissions as mp3 format.

Submissions must be completely free of copyright restrictions.

This is a multi-forum contest (but we need lots of music).

DEADLINE - JULY 10th -- Good Luck!

(The music is to be judged by a committee of one. In this regard, you are stuck with a real loser -- Frank, who has little or no musical ability and even less patience. On the other hand, anyone who gets their work in, is a "Grand Prize Winner" since, to quote one critic, "works of art are not wolves -- they do not devour each other.")

Frank

The Snow Water Corporation

Please reply with a quote or donate your work.

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Reply to the comments of Nikolas --

1. The sound effects to be used were produced by me alone.

2. The "donated" music (all classical music) is all from musopen.com (all placed in the public domain by performers). Aaron Dunn is a composer/musician and his material is on that site (it is his site) and it will be used as is.

3. There is huge amount of sheet music available free on the internet -- much of it was produced by composers who died prior to 1930 (and thus this sheet music is in the public domain). Using programs such as Sibelius or Finale (both of which incorporate photoscore.com), this material can be transformed into very clean .MIDI, .WAV and/or .MP3 files with extreme flexibility in the final result. There is great variety here -- from Mozart to bluegrass. Some of the free sheet music sources list 10,000+ music scores that are freely available and which are in the public domain. There is no shortage of music which can be generated and used without payment to anyone.

4. I have worked 11 years to get the product that you see on babysafari.us. It has been a constant drain of time and money. Sales to date have been nominal. There have been no profits to date whatever. There are no funds to pay anyone anything for the use of their compositions. Except for the considerable contribution of the translators and speakers, I have done all of the work (editing, web site, marketing, packaging, etc.) alone. Since, very usable background music can be obtained FREE with Sibelius or Finale, I see no reason to pay for it.

5. The use of a "contest" format is taken from YOUR site. Check your earlier postings (i.e., Nathan).

6. It may be that with time, this venture may be profitable (it is a long way off). The CDs however all need to be redone using children as speakers (a major effort). Other aspects of polishing the materials and of supporting other collateral projects will require a great deal of time and effort and financing for this is unavailable from any reasonable source. Thus these items must be financed from profits.

7. I am trying to produce a quality product with very few resources. I am trying to put language elements in a format which is very receptive for infants -- to give them a decent shot at becoming multilingual.

8. Using old (pre-1930) music does not benefit living composers or performers in the slightest degree. I am offering living composers the opportunity to be heard -- widely heard. If this is not enough and/or if no one wishes to help -- too bad, then I go back to Finale and Sibelius for the music (and/or I take the stuff from musopen.com and transform it in fleximusic.com, Finale and/or Sibelius to give substantial variations).

9. Your comments are understood but I hope the foregoing clarifies the situation.

10. The contest is still in gear and submissions are requested.

So Wait a minute cause I juts got off a discussion such as this

you are holding a contest to get FREE music on your CDs to sell?

Are you serious!

Are you really serious?!?!?!?!???!??!??

Why not BUY the bloody music and get some money for the composers? Are the compoers idiots or something?

Do reply, please, do reply, cause the 9 CDs cost almost 40$! Half of that money or a third or a fourth should go to the composers!

Oh I've really got some chassing to do!

People, please do not offer you music to them! They are seaching for morons to "donate" their time and music, for no return, while they make money.

Frank,

1. Well done. I don't mind about sfx. Usually they are royalty free. You should be ok there.

2. I don't care about Dunn or the thus far donated music. Non copyrighted music still has to be recorded, and the recording are AGAIN copyrighted. I don't know how muopen.com works, but copyright exists from the begining of an idea, and bellongs to the creator by default (especially in the US). I didn't see, nor I searched a lot in musopen.com (since again it's not my goal), but I'm still wondering how one would feel if you just took their recordings and efforts, to use it to make money.

3. Yes, I know, I have given music to such sites, but it's NOT COPYRIGHT free. Other music older, of course is, and it should be (actually I think that the 70 years after the composers death, is highly ridiculous as it takes care his grand grand children, but anyways, let's not get into this). You have scores, great!

4.

This takes a lot of explaining:

i. It is highly disrespectful of you to come to me (diploma in piano, harmony, counterpoint, fugue, Masters in Music with distinction, PhD in composition 3rd year), and speak to me aobut simple and what not with Finale or sibelius. highly offensive I tell you!

ii. The fact that is easy, does not mean you can take it. Every recording bellongs to someone else (the creator of the RECORDING.) If you touch any of my recordings, or my friends, I promise you that you will be in deep trouble! (although I've not posted in musopen, you CAN find mp3s in my own site. But copyright is mine, and I refuse to give you any chance to do anything to my music, apart from listening to it.)

iii. I have worked 25 years, learning, and teachiong ,and working music, and just started making money with music (not just, but anywyas). With 2 kids and a family to feed, I simply don't care that you spent 11 years and your sales are nominal! they are sales! You ARE making money out of this! you ARE selling CDs (40$ for the 9 Cds, if I'm not mistaken)

5. Young composers is not MY site. I just post there. I'm not a mod or anything. I'm consious to people falling for such bad situations though. That's why I bother replying... The contest is a really bad idea, especially if you are looking for 5-6 hours of music. How much do you think you'll get? More?

6. While music won't? You are being highly offensive again! :P

7. I applaude you efforts. My kids speak two languages: English and Greek. Still I don't care about your cause. Unless you are registered charity or something, which doesn't seem so. A noble cause tha needs proper treatment I say.

8. nominal sales, does not mean that the composers taking part will be heard, does it? Furthermore again, non copyrighted music, does not equal non copyrighted recordings. The recordings also have copyrights. you can't use recordings without permitions.

9. Thanks. I'm really sad to see that you treat music as the last step, and easy to make. As someone who lives, breathes, poo poos and sleeps music, I'm really offended by your reply here!

10. I'm afraid that the mods and admins agree with me on this one... I don't what will happen with the competition, nor I care. I do care that no composers I know (and I know A LOT mind you) make an error and "donate" their music so you can make even 1 penny.

how on earth did you think of that? That you can take and use music made by others, or recorded by others, and not compensate them?

If you want a legal and affordable (maybe) solution check music libaries. Premade tracks that can be bought, royalty free, with a small fee, usually. Of course the music will be heard elsewhere, but what can you expect for free, or almost free...

you seem to be missing some vital parts in you understanding about copyright... Or at least some ethical/moral (I'm not sure about the difference so I used both terms, choose one) points in how you treat people (musicians) and their efforts.

I have a lot of sympathy for everyone involved in creating music. The usual rule is that deriving money with such wonderful talent is frequently very difficult.

By training and experience I am a lawyer. I can unconditionally state that any music produced by a composer who has been dead for 70+ years is in the public domain. That means that the public owns it and can use in any manner which may be desired. A piece of sheet music which is 70+ years old and which was composed by such a composer is also in the public domain. The Finale and Sibelius computer programs are purchased by a user. These programs SCAN the sheet music and directly produce audio files. There is NO RECORDING process. These computer programs READ the sheet music. They take, for example, some sheet music by Mozart which is 200 years old and directly create a .MIDI file. The person who does this can do anything with the file completely free of the copyright laws. The file is owned outright by the person who scanned the sheet music and produced the file. There are NO performers involved.

The foregoing may be unpleasant news. If the administrators wish to act to remove these postings, then they deny their members the chance to make a free choice on this matter. If so, it is not a very open forum. Let's hope the members are given a chance to read the posts and decide for themselves. I am trying very hard to be generous here. I can get as much material as is needed FREE. It may be old, but the composers of 1800-1900 produced a lot of great compositions. I can use these. If I have to, I will use them. If so, two groups of people lose -- those living composers who could be on the CDs -- and the infants who could get to hear current compositions.

The pricing of $39.50 for a set of our CDs is new pricing (none have been sold at this price). The total gross income to date from the project totals under $400 (over 11 years). The translation costs alone were over $3K. Marketing has been put off until the translations were thoroughly cross checked (a very difficult process) and until there was music on the CDs.

A condition of putting a music file on musopen.com is that all copyrights are fully released. The composers involved have been dead for 70+ years. The performers who did this, did so with full knowledge of what they were doing. These music files are all in the public domain.

Doing the audio language files is an independent process and a very tough one. Doing the background music files is also a tough process. Mixing them is tough. I want a wide variety of material. The best I can do for now is to give credit to the composers, new or old. It would be nice to do more, but it is not possible.

Best regards, Frank

The fact remains that new music is one of the most expensive parts of any production, because of the incredible expense, in both time and money, that musicians have incurred in training.

I don't think that "credit" is the best you can do - even offering a percentage of project income is better.

I have a lot of sympathy for everyone involved in creating music. The usual rule is that deriving money with such wonderful talent is frequently very difficult.

I doubt that you have any sympathy. (don't know you as a person, just seeing the way you treat music and musicians...)

The usual role is that people should get paid for what they do. When there is no budget I have no problem (student films, frebbies, loops, freeware games etc, or even competitions here in YC forums). but when there is an income then why should the composer be the ONLY one not get paid (having spent all his life studying and working with music, and having a DAW and having spent tons of money in his studio, while a liguist will have spent 4-5 years in a university and off he goes). [Don't care to make comparisons, but Frank is a bit hazzy again to what composers do and how valuable it is, apparently].

By training and experience I am a lawyer. I can unconditionally state that any music produced by a composer who has been dead for 70+ years is in the public domain. That means that the public owns it and can use in any manner which may be desired. A piece of sheet music which is 70+ years old and which was composed by such a composer is also in the public domain. The Finale and Sibelius computer programs are purchased by a user. These programs SCAN the sheet music and directly produce audio files. There is NO RECORDING process. These computer programs READ the sheet music. They take, for example, some sheet music by Mozart which is 200 years old and directly create a .MIDI file. The person who does this can do anything with the file completely free of the copyright laws. The file is owned outright by the person who scanned the sheet music and produced the file. There are NO performers involved.

THAT you didn't explain (or I didn't understand). If YOU are the one creating the wav/mp3 files (which are called audio files and are recordings, my friend :() then by all means you can do it. If you are NOT the one, but ask me (for example), to do a rendering with my studio, of a Mozart track, do you think I don't own the hard work I did? I guess it's a question of the court, but recording does not merely means "getting a mic out and getting the sound into a box", but means "any digital, or analogue file which has sounds in". If this has been done by recording a voice, or using Finale, or whatever, I'm not sure, tbh, but still the fact remains that it is probably copyrighted.

Again if YOU do the midi,mp3,wav files then no problem here.

I don't know why I'm discussing this really... I shoulddn't help you out, should I?

The foregoing may be unpleasant news. If the administrators wish to act to remove these postings, then they deny their members the chance to make a free choice on this matter. If so, it is not a very open forum. Let's hope the members are given a chance to read the posts and decide for themselves. I am trying very hard to be generous here. I can get as much material as is needed FREE. It may be old, but the composers of 1800-1900 produced a lot of great compositions. I can use these. If I have to, I will use them. If so, two groups of people lose -- those living composers who could be on the CDs -- and the infants who could get to hear current compositions.

I say, that the fact that the thread is still here, is most generous from the forum operators. Was it my forum, you would be kicked out in a second. I would consider this SPAM, all the way (plus the hits you must've got from here. grrrrrr ;))

No, no living composer loses. There is no chance here, there is nothing to be gained at all. Only you get to win. I can honestly understand that your final music used which you rendered yourself, might not be as good as you would like them... And filling 5 hours of music is not an easy task (that's why you want someone else do it for you).

No, my friend. I suggest ALL DON'T take this so called "chance". No chance here. You may judge for yourselves...

Generous?

You want an idea: Give 20% of the earnings to the composers that work with you. Make honest contracts, and in 1 years time give them the 100-100000000 $ (whatever the ammount) they deserve. That would be nice and dandy. Requires no capital at all (and since your business is internet based, you hardly have any expenses, right? I don't care about the making of CDs. After that you only have to advertise...)

Other idea. Visit music libraries. There are some that sell tracks of 3-5 minutes, for 30-50$. Get some, repeat them and you're done.

You ARE CHEAP!

The pricing of $39.50 for a set of our CDs is new pricing (none have been sold at this price). The total gross income to date from the project totals under $400 (over 11 years). The translation costs alone were over $3K. Marketing has been put off until the translations were thoroughly cross checked (a very difficult process) and until there was music on the CDs.

I don't care, maybe? Because your dream didn't come true, the composer(s) should help you unconditionally and for free, and losing their copyrights?

HA!

A condition of putting a music file on musopen.com is that all copyrights are fully released. The composers involved have been dead for 70+ years. The performers who did this, did so with full knowledge of what they were doing. These music files are all in the public domain.

A pity for people to take part in this scheme...

Q: What restrictions are there for the music downloaded from this site' date=' can I edit it? Share it? Use it for a film project?

A: The music on this site is given a public domain license, therefore, there are technically no restrictions on what you do with it. We do ask, out of courtesy, two things. One, that you do not directly sell our recordings for profit, as a great amount of work has been donated to this project, and for the benefit of the public, not profit. Two, we ask that any commerical or derived works attribute Musopen somewhere, to give credit to this project. And for all the film students emailing, yes you may use it in your film, you can then sell the film, containing our music. It's in the public domain afterall. [/quote']

Legally you're ok. But I really don't understand, if you can use it to make money otherwise, why not the raw material?

A pity... A pity...

Doing the audio language files is an independent process and a very tough one. Doing the background music files is also a tough process. Mixing them is tough. I want a wide variety of material. The best I can do for now is to give credit to the composers, new or old. It would be nice to do more, but it is not possible.

I don't care, again, about your financial problems, or how difficult it is to do the audio languages... There are tons more things you can do. but you want the cheap way out!

And that's outragous!

Best regards, Frank

Nikolas here

PS. I heard a traditional greek song in the greek CD somewhere (I'm Greek), and I was wondering where you got the recording, and the recording is out of copyright itself... ;)

Oh Boy...

If you are doing this to piss me off, do stop please.

If not by all means carry on. I won't bother anymore with you... Not worth it.

Hi,

I totally understand ones commitment to a labour of love,but this is not a non-profit charity project yet you have offered no share in the those profits.

Also putting this across as a contest with deadlines and a prize to young composers is under handed.

Firstly As you well know..a link and some exposure is not a 'prize' its just industry standard,freebie or not,

(also this thread was moved,I presume from the contest section which also demonstrates my point,..this is an 'unpaid work' gig not a contest.)

If the past 11years have yielded only $400.00 in profits why not offer a percentage of the back-end?,it seems their is nothing to loose profit wise.

'It may be that with time, this venture may be profitable (it is a long way off).'

Again,Why would you not use this as the incentive and offer a percentage of your potential profits?

You are not 'offering living composers the opportunity to be heard',you are avoiding the lengthy and complex process of converting all those public domian scores to wav's/mp3's etc using notation software.

basically instead of taking a dead composers music for free you would rather take a living composers music for free,how kind of you.

I can unconditionally state that any music produced by a composer who has been dead for 70+ years is in the public domain. That means that the public owns it and can use in any manner which may be desired. A piece of sheet music which is 70+ years old and which was composed by such a composer is also in the public domain. The Finale and Sibelius computer programs are purchased by a user. These programs SCAN the sheet music and directly produce audio files. There is NO RECORDING process. These computer programs READ the sheet music. They take, for example, some sheet music by Mozart which is 200 years old and directly create a .MIDI file. The person who does this can do anything with the file completely free of the copyright laws. The file is owned outright by the person who scanned the sheet music and produced the file.

I'm sorry but I must correct you here. When a composer is 70+ years dead (this is different in each country) does not mean all their work instantly becomes public domain. In terms of sheet music, publishers still own the rights over their publication of the composer's work. So simply scanning in the sheet music is still violating copyright as the edition must also be in the public domain. Take Mozart's works for example. Most are now published by "Boosey & Hawkes Music Publishers" and all these editions are not public domain.

The 70+ rule applies to public performance of the composer's work.

I agree wholeheartedly with Nikolas on almost all aspects. :)

Best Regards,

MaestroX

Oh, and as for the kind of composers who would do this for free... all I can say is, "You gets what you pays for."

That's not very nice.