SubjectRuin Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 I'm working on perfecting a system of visually diagramming song structure, outside of traditional music notation. Essentially, it's just a system of symbols with different meanings, strung together like a sentence. Derivatives of the same basic musical idea are color coded and rules are set up to accomidate different types of transitions and embellishments. It generally doesn't follow traditional music theory, but rather the way I picture the structure of music in my head. Anyway, I'm mostly curious to know what people think about such a system, or if anyone else uses a similar system to diagram the structure of their songs. This image is just a small example, as I'm surrently trying to diagram an entire concept album im working on. Quote
Chad dream eyes Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 And I thought i was the only one. Darn.!!!!!!! If i could get some pictures of some of mine.?? I have a blank piece of paper, and I start writing scribbles basically look as the pitches go higher so does the scrible, I label some particular instruments, but mostly go in the order that they normally fall into (winds, brass, percussion, harp/piano/celesta, strings.) I also have odd symbols for blocked chords. No color is used , its alot easier to compose too.... when you don't have to think of the notes. Quote
J. Lee Graham Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Interesting. What is the purpose of this kind of diagram? Is it for analysis? Just curious...other than traditional analyses of form, I've never seen anything quite like this. Quote
Gongchime Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 I'm currently reading abook on creativity that says many Geniuses make visual representations of as many parts of the subject they're working on as possible and then combine them in as many different combinations as possible. I had been inspired to make different alphabets just as something interesting but I was just making my own song structure thing this morning. Yours is a lot more creative than mine at the moment. It kinda looks like my alphabets though a bit. I suspect it's a very excellent way to visualise the song for some people. All the words to describe it doesn't give the global immediacy of your chart. Good work. Just curious what the spirals with two and three lines mean. I'd like to hear more of what the rest of it means too if you're up for it. Gongchime Quote
Gongchime Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 I'm interested in how a persons philosophical orientation/myth/religion affects their composing and try to more fully embody mine in my work. Some examples are how the gamelan playing technique of striking the bar represents Brahm in the act of creation in Hindu religious iconography. Sustaining the note is Vishnu preserving the world and stopping the note with your other hand represents Shiva in his destructive aspect destroying the world. Some of the readings I have studied say also that very geometrically symmetrical structures imply a negation of time and avoiding that makes for a more humanized listening experience. Several distinctly defined colotomic rhythmic layers implies being at one with the universe. A repeating motif or ostinato implies entrance into the realm of myth. Two instruments playing the same melody or heterophonically implies a relationship usually marriage between a man and a woman. Call and response represents a leader and followers. If the chorus replying to the leader is exact, it means they have little freedom. If the chorus can sing a different response than the leaders it means they have more freedom. If they all sing the same thing together means they are in complete agreement. If they overlap with the leader it means they are free to interrupt him. The large gong played at the end of traditional gamelan music represents that everything is moving toward one great goal which is embodied in the Sultan or King. These are the kinds of things I have tried to represent in my own picture code. Quote
SubjectRuin Posted December 16, 2005 Author Posted December 16, 2005 Thank you all for responding, it's interesting to know what people think about this kind of stuff. Graham, to answer your question, these diagrams aren't for analysis, but they insead act as a sort of blueprint for a song. The diagram is purely for the song structure itself, it has nothing to do with the individual notes or chords being played, but instead each block represents a unit or segment of music. I create these diagrams first, then make the music based on them. Gongchime, interesting what you were saying about geniuses and visual representations... To answer your question, the spirals indicate the start of a segment to be repeated, and the horizontal dashes indicate approximately how many times I'd like to repeat it. Originally, the "squishedness" of the spirals were supposed to roughly indicate tempo, but looking back, this idea doesn't make much sense considering there are no other tempo indicators for the non-repeated segments. I'll try to go into a little more depth for you about what this all means, just bear in mind that I'm not formally trained in music theory, so I use terms and concepts that make sense to me but may not be the proper terms for them or may not even exist in actual music theory. Each block, as I said, represents a cohesive unit of music. Blocks of a same color are derivatives of the same musical idea. The blocks are sectioned off into "measures" or smaller segments within the larger block, and an "x" is what I call a difference tick, meaning there will be a slight variation in that measure. Smaller blocks either under or above the colored blocks indicate accompanying parts. Blocks with a half-filled circle indicate what I call "connective transitions" which are basically transitions that blend the ideas of what comes before and after the transition. Blocks with a x-ed circle represent what I call "unique transitions" which transition one segment to another using an all-together new musical idea. Free standing circles indicate "embelishments" which I view as little ornamentations or slight variations in teh musical idea. Open circles indicate "additive embellishments" which are little ornaments consisting of a new instrument simply adding a piece over the existing section, whereas filled circles represent "destructive embelishments" which change the essence of the main musical idea. I call the wedge shaped triangle "buildups" which simply mean that the particular section gets more intense towards the end. There is a bracket right after the first repeated segment that I call a "fusion bracket" which simplifies and condenses the instrumentation of the bracketed segment to create a new, solid block while still maintaining the essence of the original musical idea. This "language" is still a work in progress and I'm sure lots will be added or changed as new things become nessecary, but this will give you a basic idea of what that crazy diagram is all about. Quote
Eirik Posted December 16, 2005 Posted December 16, 2005 Cool drawing. I'd love to hear this one! Quote
humnab Posted December 17, 2005 Posted December 17, 2005 It's nothing particularly original. It's been going on for years -- scores that are more visual art than scores. Which leads to the question, since it can be so differently interpreted -- who's the composer? The person who did the diagram or the one who actually invents something based on the diagram? Quote
Gongchime Posted December 17, 2005 Posted December 17, 2005 I'm not sure but I don't think his diagram is meant to be interpreted by someone else. I know mine aren't. The symbols are very specific. In my case I use a bird to indicate that the box has information about the melody and two people holding hands to show the box has info about the accompaniment. A bass cleff for the bass line and a drum for percussion. I use an open door to show that the boxes below(whether melodic, accompaniment, bass or whatever) are referring to the introduction. I use two thin wavy lines near each other to show that the melody there is in a confined range. I use a thick book with the Chinese symbol for "middle" in the accompaniment box to show that the accompaniment is not tutti but uses some or most of the instruments. It just means that some instruments in the ensemble are being held in reserve temporarily. I use a group of circles to represent rhythmic layers. The first layer is a line of circles close to each other, the next layer below that is under every other top circle and the layer below that is under every other middle layer. Basically it means that there are three different rhythmic layers. I use the letter A for the first subject which contains at least two phrases. I use a picture of a back hoe to show back heavy phrases. Phrases which start at the halfway point of 4 or two measures depending. I could also show a note starting off the down beat if I wanted to use that. I use unevenly grouped sets of lines to indicate that the A section will have broken rhythms as in art. e.g. 2+3+1+1 beats or whatever. I use a swing to show that the A section may contain the swing rhythm in the melody. And stairs with the numbers 1-7 to show that the A section will have a diatonic scale. I use a tree to show that the melody is not ornamented and ribs to show that the melody is the prime version as in prime ribs. And a running stick man to show that the melodic rhythm in the A section is fast. I put a hole with dirt being shoveld at the end of the drum box to show a drum fill belongs at the end and a person with a finger over their mouth saying Shhh! to show that the accompaniment drops out just before the fill. I drew a bell at the end of every section to show that something is played to announce section changes whether that's a glissando on chimes, or harp, or a rhythm played on ride just before or a crash on the down beat of the next section. I drew a bull dozer in section B pushing the melody toward the front of the measure to show that the melodic phrases in the B section are front heavy and a note over the first beat of a tactus toshow that the melody starts right on the downbeat. I show a foot stepping on the brake pedal to show that the melody rhythm inthe B section may be slower than the A section. I show two stick men pulling on the melody to show that it may be a rhythmically augmented version of the melody and I use an upright mirror to show that it uses the retrograde of the melody at least rhythmically. I use a pentagon with a five in it to show that the melody in the B section will be based on a pentatonic scale. In the accompaniment box below the melody box inthe B section is the book again but this time it has the Chinese symbol for big meaning that the whole ensemble will play a thick texture. In the A1 section I show 12+6 which means that I've added something to the melody and a decorated Christmas tree to show that the additions are decorations/embellishments. The running man has lines behind his feet to suggest that the tempo could be a bit faster and one melodic silhouette next to a higher silhouette to mean that the retrograde version of the melody that I'musing is also transposed up. I place a hand next to an ear to show that this time the A section is a bit quiter as if straining to hear. and the book has the middle designation again. The transition has Do Re Mi written in it's box to mean that a melody if played will be scalar. I draw the wavy lines again to show that the transition is in a confined range again. If the accompaniment drops out completely then I put an X. And reiterate the drumsymbol to show that the percussion continues through the transition. The C section has the back-hoe again to mean back heavy phrases and a note on the second beat of a tactus to mean a melody that starts off the beat. I also use a circle with the number 12 in it to mean that the melody may be chromatic. The last section does not repeat A and goes straight to B which is louder indicated by an open mouth screaming and a Christmas tree meaning more embellishment. Gongchime Quote
J. Lee Graham Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 I didn't understand the point of this at first, but I think I get it now. It's a way to plan a piece visually/conceptually before starting on it using traditional notation. This is something I almost never do, though I always have some notion of what a piece is going to be form-wise from inception. This is very interesting. Quote
Marisa Posted December 18, 2005 Posted December 18, 2005 Agreed. I think it could make comparing pieces very interesting - what results from visual similarities and such. Quote
Gongchime Posted December 19, 2005 Posted December 19, 2005 I also divide the instrumentation up, albeit a bit metaphysically. The three brass metallophones are feminine because they're for playing quietly and the sound sustains the way women live longer than men. The three iron metallophones are masculine because theyr'e friggin' loud and the sound dies quickly. They're also physically hard. The way men have harder muscles on the outside of their bodies. The bonang barung and bonang panerus (pot gongs) represent people with fluid sexualities let's say, as opposed to saying bisexual, gay, lesbian, or polygamist. But they are also physically feminine and masculine respectively. Also, the lower of the two sets of three metallophone instruments relate to an elderly person. The middle sounding ones relate to a middle aged person and the highest sounding instruements represent a young person. The low instruments play slowly and the high play fastest. They can also relate to the three worlds found in many mythologies. The high instruments represent beings in heaven or birds. (I usually think of the Wood Thrush) The Low instruments represent beings in the underworld (I usually think of whales and their songs.) The middle level is for people and land animals. The animals that have a distinctive rhythm can be played by the middle level instruments such as camel walk, elephant walk, horse gallop, cricket. These can also be allocated to low, middle and high percussion instruments. The gongs represent a caste system. The largest gong is the king. The second largest sets are ministers in government or possibly the middle class and the smallest gongs represent laborers. Traditionally in Gamelan music the God/King is given the most importance by being placed both at the beginning and at the end of pieces but I place the middle sized gongs in the important position instead and would place the largest gong (if I use it at all) in the middle of the piece. I'm experimenting with playing them all simultaneously at the end. Gongchime Quote
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