[Discussion] Jazz Theory

Discuss

An excellent idea! I already know a fair bit about jazz theory but have still yet to do anything about applying it, class exercises or something similar might be a good idea, if you have the time.

*listens to Bill Evans trio*

:P

An excellent idea! I already know a fair bit about jazz theory but have still yet to do anything about applying it, class exercises or something similar might be a good idea...

Cool! Exercises.

I'm not really sure where I'm going to go yet with this thread - any suggestions, questions, or areas you (or anyone) would like to cover? I hope this'll open up into some discussion - I don't want to be just throwing random knowledge at you folks.

You might consider extending the simple triadic examples above by moving onto more complex flavours of figured bass. :)

I'd very much like to learn more about how I can apply any of the knowledge I have of jazz harmony etc and apply it to my other music, but that sort of thing may have to wait until you've covered basic jazz theory in a purely jazz context.

I'd like to learn a little more about the theory behind modal jazz, I understand the modes and how to apply them, but I've never had much success improvising over so what, for example.

You might consider extending the simple triadic examples above by moving onto more complex flavours of figured bass. :)

Figured bass and jazz, YAY!

You might consider extending the simple triadic examples above by moving onto more complex flavours of figured bass. :)

Okay, - I'll use basic 7th chords as our starting point, I just want to make sure everyone understands the construction of diatonic chords.

Now, when you say 'figured bass', I hope you're just meaning Roman Numeral indications of scale degrees...I don't have a firm grasp of actual figured bass (6, 6/9 inversions etc. ??)

I'd very much like to learn more about how I can apply any of the knowledge I have of jazz harmony etc and apply it to my other music...

I'd like to learn a little more about the theory behind modal jazz, I understand the modes and how to apply them, but I've never had much success improvising over so what, for example.

Okay, thanks for the input. This'll give this thread a bit more direction and purpose.

...

Thanks for this Robin, I'm looking forward to learning lots.:)

I don't really have any suggestions, whatever you want to teach, I'll try and learn.:)

That's a B half diminished, bud.

That's a B half diminished, bud.

HAHAHAHA....oops.

Fixed.

Robin, I have a question: When a piece/song is composed in a certain mode like locrian or whatnot, does the normal key signature have to be there? Example, if it was in B major, would you have to to have 5 sharps and still naturalize them every time, or would it be the key signature of C?

Thanks.

Robin, I have a question: When a piece/song is composed in a certain mode like locrian or whatnot, does the normal key signature have to be there? Example, if it was in B major, would you have to to have 5 sharps and still naturalize them every time, or would it be the key signature of C?

Thanks.

I should hope not - I'd expect the composer wouldn't want to inflict that amount of pain and hardship on the musicians. Put it in the simplest key, in this case C.

Personally, as I often use modal harmony derived from numerous key centres, I never use a key signature.

Okay, I was just wondering from your example. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Robin, I have a question: When a piece/song is composed in a certain mode like locrian or whatnot, does the normal key signature have to be there? Example, if it was in B major, would you have to to have 5 sharps and still naturalize them every time, or would it be the key signature of C?

Thanks.

Sometimes composers will write out the number of sharps/flats in the mode, i.e. a piece in E Lydian would have a key signature of five sharps (B Major). Sometimes, though, they'll just use the key signature of the parallel major/minor scale, depending on the mode. So a piece in E Lydian, E Ionian, or E Mixolydian would have a key signature with four sharps (E Major) and E Dorian, E Aeolian, and E Phrygian would have a key signature with one sharp (E Minor) and accidentals would just be used regularly for a b7, #4, b2, or natural 6. I've never seen a piece in Locrian with a minor key signature because it technically isn't a minor key due to the b5, but it may very well be out there.

Okay, I was just wondering from your example. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Yeah, the example has the key signatures simply to show how the scales are altered to produce the various modes.

I don't get it..

Is there anyway you could explain the differences between the different modes, what makes them special? What's their individual sounds?

When's the jazz excercises coming up? :wub:

Play the modes, that way you get a feel for how they sound.

Improvise in a scale of C major over Cmaj7, then Dm7, then Em7, then Fmaj7, then G7, then Am7, then Bm7b5. That way, you get a feel for what the particular sound of each mode is.

Play the modes, that way you get a feel for how they sound.

Improvise in a scale of C major over Cmaj7, then Dm7, then Em7, then Fmaj7, then G7, then Am7, then Bm7b5. That way, you get a feel for what the particular sound of each mode is.

Not quite. I could use D Phrygian over a static Dm7.

so what is the chord progression in the blues scale?

Not quite. I could use D Phrygian over a static Dm7.

And? ;)

so what is the chord progression in the blues scale?

Don't you mean, over what chord progression could you use the blues scale? :P

You can use the blues scale over almost everthing if you wanted. But the standard "Blues" is.

|I7 |I7 |I7 |I7 |IV7 |IV7 |I7 |I7 |V7 |IV7 |I7 |V7 |

Here are a couple of variations I've seen

|F7 |Bb7 |F7 |Cmi7 F7|

|Bb7 |Bdim7 |F7 |Ami7 D7|

|Gmi7 |C7 |Ami7 D7|Gmi7 C7|

|F69 |Emi7b5 A7b9|Dmi7 G7|Cmi7 F7|

|Bb7 |Bbmi7 Eb|Ami7 D7|Abmi7 Db7|

|Gmi7 |C7+9 |F7 Dmi7|Gmi7 C7+9|

:huh:

In my opinion the blues scale works a bit better in minor keys (the flat 3rd can get in the way sometimes).

A blues progression I like:

i |i |i |i |iv |iv |III |VI|iv9 |V |i |i...

Referring back to the modes, when I improvise I think more of a key (Gmin is G minor, Fmaj7 is F major) more than I do of modes. Would knowing the modes be better, or is it pretty much the same?

~Kal

In my opinion the blues scale works a bit better in minor keys (the flat 3rd can get in the way sometimes).

That b3 works great on dominant chords...and it'd technically be a #9. :laugh:

Mixing the mixolydian and blues scales will help alleviate the b3 getting-in-the-way issue for you...

I've used it on dominant chords, kinda combining a Gmin7 with G+, but I mean on tonic chords it seems to get in the way. (If I use it, it's always with a nat. 3rd right after it, but I usually stay away from it).

I see what you mean about them Mixolydian thing....

~Kal

...I mean on tonic chords it seems to get in the way.

What do you mean by a 'tonic chord' ??